Clock Identification

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by KathyMcP, Mar 9, 2017.

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  1. KathyMcP

    KathyMcP Registered User

    Mar 9, 2017
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    Hi, I'm hoping you can give me some information about this clock I bought at an estate sale. The man who cleaned it and got it working said he had never seen a clock like this and thought it dated before the industrial revolution since the movement is iron, not brass and the screws and nuts are hand made. He didn't find any identifying marks on the movement but thought it might be German. I have looked for photos of similar clocks but have not seen one with this "bump out" that lets the pendulum swing wider. It has to be wound daily and there is an alarm in it set by a small dial on the clock face. It is 8 feet tall and the weights are on ropes not chains. I don't know much about clocks, I just thought it was beautiful, so I appreciate any information you can share.


    IMG_0605.jpg IMG_0594.jpg IMG_0601.jpg
     
  2. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    It is a nice find indeed. Particularly in working condition.
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    Welcome to the board.

    An interesting and unusual clock. Could you post a photograph of the iron movement? That would help to identify the clock more nearly. Not all post-industrial revolution had brass movements - the Morbiere style clocks, for instance, often had many parts of iron.

    JTD
     
  4. ragobo

    ragobo Registered User

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    Well, that pendulum could have a larger period than 2 seconds :)
     
  5. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    The French made clocks with this basic shape.
    My vote is French.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  6. KathyMcP

    KathyMcP Registered User

    Mar 9, 2017
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    Thanks so much for your input. Here is a photo of the movement and a closeup of the bottom.


    IMG_0607.jpg IMG_0608.jpg
     
  7. KathyMcP

    KathyMcP Registered User

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    I posted the photos you requested, and look forward to your ideas.
     
  8. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    I've never seen anything like that, movement or case. My guess is early english.
    Willie X
     
  9. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Super Moderator
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    I think this one might be European. The steel plate movement could mean it is Swedish or Danish. Here is a thread about another longcase that had many of us scratching our heads. Click Here
     
  10. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    #10 JTD, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    I agree with the idea that this is likely a european movement. I am not at all expert in longcase clocks so if I make just some comments that have occurred to me, please understand that some or all of them may be the result of my ignorance:

    1. Something seems strange (to me) about the case. What has happened to the door? It looks as if there has been a newer panel inserted in the front - there even seems to the the outline of what could have been intended as a lenticle (for which there would have been no use, as the pendulum bob shows at the bottom). When you look at the inner side of the door, the beading around the central panel looks quite fresh. Also the front of the hood looks relatively new, with such clean, fresh, crisp carvings on the upper corners. And there seems to be quite a mixture of different woods/veneers used in the whole case.

    2. Looking at the photo with the movement which shows the back of the dial, the front plate of the movement looks older that the dial plate, and why is the front plate of the movement such a curious shape? It looks as if it were designed to go into a case with a different shaped aperture and/or dial plate.

    I have hesitated to post these thoughts because of my ignorance of such clocks, but would be glad to hear what others think.

    JTD
     
  11. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
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    I found two other examples of Tall Case Clocks with Similar Bulbous Bases. Searching Google images under Bombay Tall Clock. Both are purported to be of Dutch Origin. I only viewed page 1, so other examples are probably on there. Neither example I found appeared to have the pendulum bob all the way down in the bottom.

    Is that a fishing weight hanging in photo #1? if so whats it's purpose?..........can I borrow it:???: opening day is just around the corner. Time to get my Tackle in order:clap:

    why is the small (chapter ring?) around the center shaft oriented different than the main chapter ring? Did it just rotate on it's own, or do you set something by turning it?

    Just a couple of observations and questions to enhance my personal knowledge.................Thx
     
  12. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Super Moderator
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    I would think the small chapter ring is actually an alarm disk. That's why it needs three brass weights.
     
  13. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
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    Thanks, I thought about an alarm, but being new to clock repair I haven't seen one on a tall case clock
     
  14. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    #14 Chris Radano, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    I'm not sure the origin of the movement, it does have that Scandinavian look as Peter suggests.

    One thing I am fairy certain of, is that the case appears newer. Perhaps the movement was re-cased later in the late 19th - early 20th century.

    Mora clocks had bombe cases, such as this case. Perhaps the case was inspired by an old, original case.
     
  15. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    The alarm disk was mentioned by the OP in the first post.

    JTD
     
  16. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
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    Your very right JTD. I read it a couple of times, but somehow overlooked that sentence. Guess I was focused on the case. Funny how tunnel vision works, that or need more coffee, or both.

     
  17. laumeg

    laumeg Registered User

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    #17 laumeg, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    Hi, I am likewise going to make observations. The movement and possibly the pendulum look old and original. It also looks like and original false face plate attached to the movement. It has a string suspension, but does not look original. The face plate just in style just does not seem that old. I am going to suggest that the case is a modification. Looking at the picture of the back, where you see the movement, you see a lot of modifications, some new wood, especially around the face of the clock and a lot of cuts and modifications on the movement platform. Further down on the back cover it looks like pine. If you really look at the full length picture, use you imagination and picture the case without the side bulbs on the side at the bottom. Now you have what I would say is a fairly common style old case. The side bulbs do appear as if they are made of different wood from the case and added on for "style" I don't see any real function that they would serve. In Bombay style cases the sides actually allow for a greater swing in the pendulum. The door inserts also do not seem to fit with the overall style of the case. Just my observations. Charles
     
  18. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    There is a couple of folks that made iron full plate movements with brass "bushings" in the past: Mora in Sweden,Northern Germany around Bremen, people from the region of "Bergisches Land" and more southwards up to Hessen/Germany.More pics are needed,but I also have the impression that movement and dial are mid 18th century while the case seems late 19th cent. to me.
    In any case a nice and interesting clock!
    Burkhard
     
  19. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    anyway to get photos of the movement internals? My guess would be wood barrels on the great wheels… but it would be great to see more

    I have a Bergisches with a very long fly outside the back plate… Would like to see what's between this guy's plates. note two hammers inside the bell
     
  20. matthiasi

    matthiasi Registered User

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    I too have seen similar movements from the Wuppertal / Duesseldorf / Koeln area...
     
  21. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I still think it's French too.
     
  22. Jim Duncan

    Jim Duncan Registered User
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    German, especially north German clocks often started as wall clocks with iron plated movements and a wooden "kopf" or head. The kopf was mounted on the wall and consisted of the top portion of a case and not the long bottom portion of a standing clock. A bit like the hooded clock of Britain. In time an owner was able to afford a custom built full case below the kopf. This clock has an especially nice kopf and handsomely engraved dial.

    In looking at the photos of the back of the works it seems the kopf portion, including the seat board, is unmodified, while the lower portion of the case was made up at a later point - perhaps by modifying an existing case.

    One excellent source of this type of clock is Ian Fowler's website: http://www.historische-zeitmesser.de/fachartikel/fa_german_longcase_01.html

    There are both English and German versions of the site, although I think the German is a bit more thorough. At the bottom of the article is an email address for Mr. Fowler, who is British - living in Germany, and glad to correspond in English.

    Good luck,
    Jim
     
  23. KathyMcP

    KathyMcP Registered User

    Mar 9, 2017
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    Thank you all for your ideas about my clock. There are many differing opinions so it seems to remain a mystery, but I love it. You have been very helpful and I'm going to see if I can get any more information about the previous owner and where it was purchased. If I learn anything interesting I'll let you know.
    Thanks, again.
    Kathy
     
  24. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    This seems to have got separated from the original thread. Was this about the tall case clock with the bulging sides?

    If so, maybe a moderator can re-unite your post with its thread.

    JTD
     
  25. KathyMcP

    KathyMcP Registered User

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    Thank you all for your ideas about my clock. There are many differing opinions so it seems to remain a mystery, but I love it. You have been very helpful and I'm going to see if I can get any more information about the previous owner and where it was purchased. If I learn anything interesting I'll let you know.
    Thanks, again.
    Kathy
     
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