Clock club

[Jmiod]

Ok I read and read never been so overwhelmed on bushings. I watched the videos but, I have no tools but enough to disassemble my Urgos uw32 movement and checked all pivots and marked oblong side and plates to rebush. I have pivots measuring .7(1)1.7(5)1.1,(1)3.0(3) that need rebushing. I reassembled back gears for confidences and remeasured with my harbor freight caliper. (Fixed income sorry) I think I need fwm l12, l21,l16,l28 the 10 ct timesavers assortment only covers 21,16. So I will have to spend $20 ea on l12,l28?
I would like German tools and everything expensive but it ain’t gonna happen. Just saying, I obtained 6 stand up clocks 5 work but I will inspect as I am able. This one first. Urgos, I bought tweezers screwdrivers I have a few tools at my cave. I will buy what I can as I can so… horologists of seasons, lol can you steer this old electrician in the right direction. I am probably one more chime from being thrown out of my domicile from my wife but that’s another day. I simply love this stuff and wished I found it younger. I ultrasonically homemade! assembled and cleaned all 5 clocks, rinsed, blew air, dried oiled and never had more fun enjoying this retirement thing. I guess I need reamers, honers and some good advice so I figured you guys might know a little bit after all the you tube and this forum everyone loves. Please help if you can. Thank you in advance!

 

[Dick Feldman]

Sounds like you have the disease.
I would recommend you improvise as much as you can with tools. You likely have lots of stuff that will do just fine with clock work. For instance, I use discarded three jaw drill motor chucks as tool holders and as anvils for any round pieces.
Is there a clock repair person nearby that could give in person advice? Even a less than top quality mentor can teach some good lessons. Maybe ask to have bushings installed in one plate and ask if you can watch. Any cost will be returned ten-fold in experience.
There is also the NAWCC. Click this link and follow to a local chapter. The contact person for that chapter will likely steer you towards some good help.
Local Chapters - National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors, Inc.
I am a big critic of U tube video advice. Some of the stuff promoted on those is simply bad practice. Use caution in which advice to file and which to toss in the trash.
Your wife will likely be hunting clock projects for you when she gets the bug.
Best of luck and do not be afraid to ask questions here. As with U Tube videos, this board is populated with all levels of repair people. Some are good and others not.
It will not take long to know who is who.
Best of luck with your newfound hobby.
Dick

 

[Vernon]

Jmiod, It seems like what you picked out makes sense. It looks like there bushings are $11 for a 20 pack and $7.50 for 10? If you noticed, at the top of Timesavers bushing chart are roman numerals and that indicates which reamer to use for the bushings in that column. You will need the kwm handle for your reamers and a set of cutting and smoothing broaches for fine tuning the id opening.

Make sure that you prep the worn hole prior to reaming as discussed on this forum or you will lose center. Have fun!

Vernon

 

[Jmiod]

The disease makes corona virus look tame I can’t throw anything away. I can’t sleep thinking of ways to use tools I already have that will work. I incessantly think of why won’t it physically do what I need it to do which only makes me quest the answer only to burn another session of what don’t I know now game. I have a Masters degree a Master Electricians license and I still feel like this clock thing must be physics on steroids. Last time I did this I ended up with 22 honey bee hives and hundreds of gallons of honey, mead and that lead into homebrewing. I only have a
few hobbies left in this Grampa lol. This one is very challenging to say the least. Diving was like this too all in equipment and/or at least you can rent type of hobby but not clocks it seems. Just to see if it’s really for you but I think it is.$

Anywho I really appreciate you guys taking time to reply and the advice about local chapter search and bushing education. I only wish I could find a retired horoligist so I could buy used tools from. Just broaches and starter tools you guys know what I need. My eBay, Craigslist, marketplace, local ads, word of family search is not working so far but never say never. Being new I can’t so far, justify all in approach yet, maybe a few tools and like suggested improvise which brought up by a cop isnt anything new on his pay. Just another day. Your advice is priceless and I look forward to this forum. Thank you for helping me and countless other lost clock souls. I am sure though you will get sick of my day 42 questions but please have patience with me I don’t understand a lot as you know. I read read and read though.
Now, please explain the tick tock vs tick —-tok I read about. The escape synchronicity is baffling and I stripped the rocker adjustable screws trying to keep the pendulum swinging albeit the worn bushings acknowledged. Can you rebuild that stripped hole or can I permanently glue it to the pivot rod?
Some escarpments don’t have an adjustment screw (which makes me think permanent gluing can work)while fixed others have self adjusting and/or manual push adjustment?
I get the time train pressure on the escapement rocker to wheel physics but which side of the t
Curved teeth push the pendulum or is it important with respect to the adjustment of the rocker arm. This is all very confusing to understand with all the different escape equipment I have seen already. This seems to be the cruxt of the timing of the clock why is it so arbitrary to adjust?
Boy this one really baffles me adjustable, fixed, auto, balance wheel, oil no oil, end of weight travel, spring tensions at start finish of rewind, wobble, free spin, it’s enough to make a beginner dizzy the more you read and watch the more escapement errors are possible. How can you zero in on the real problem other than bushing replacement which I will try when I get the bushings/reamers etc ordered asap?
Wow the things I’ll be asking

James

 

[JTD]

Now, please explain the tick tock vs tick —-tok I read about. The escape synchronicity is baffling

This is called 'setting the clock in beat', if I understand correctly what you are asking. Read the helpful instructions called 'Beat setting 101' from the top of the page (click on 'How to do it Articles').

It's really not very difficult when you have done it once or twice.

JTD

 

[bkerr]

I think Dick makes a good point about the NAWCC. If you dig in you may find a local chapter in your area. These are the in my opinion, the best places to buy THE TOOLS. Ebay is a hit or miss. Buying cheap is a go no where for me. I have learned a lot from different guys at the meetings and have made some very good friends along the way. Having a mentor that can share experiences is the best. I have a full time job, retiring soon, and will continue with clock and watch repair in retirement, Lord willing. I have most all the tools I want but there are always more that can come to the shop. We have a show in Wilmington, OH coming up that is a really good place to find things that you just have to get. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[R. Croswell]

Ok I read and read never been so overwhelmed on bushings. I watched the videos but, I have no tools but enough to disassemble my Urgos uw32 movement and checked all pivots and marked oblong side and plates to rebush. I have pivots measuring .7(1)1.7(5)1.1,(1)3.0(3) that need rebushing. I reassembled back gears for confidences and remeasured with my harbor freight caliper. (Fixed income sorry) I think I need fwm l12, l21,l16,l28 the 10 ct timesavers assortment only covers 21,16. So I will have to spend $20 ea on l12,l28?
I would like German tools and everything expensive but it ain’t gonna happen. Just saying, I obtained 6 stand up clocks 5 work but I will inspect as I am able. This one first. Urgos, I bought tweezers screwdrivers I have a few tools at my cave. I will buy what I can as I can so… horologists of seasons, lol can you steer this old electrician in the right direction. I am probably one more chime from being thrown out of my domicile from my wife but that’s another day. I simply love this stuff and wished I found it younger. I ultrasonically homemade! assembled and cleaned all 5 clocks, rinsed, blew air, dried oiled and never had more fun enjoying this retirement thing. I guess I need reamers, honers and some good advice so I figured you guys might know a little bit after all the you tube and this forum everyone loves. Please help if you can. Thank you in advance!

I'll begin with a story that a master electrician can relate to. About 15 or so years ago I was doing a lot of contract maintenance and repair work for a local canning factory. It was an old place and most of the wiring was at best treacherous. There were various shacks and one old aluminum house trailer from the days when aluminum wiring was common where the temporary help lived. The trailer only had a 120 volt service line strung from the factory on a pole over to the trailer. I don't know who did the wiring but it apparently worked OK for some time until a storm took down the line. They didn't want to pay my rate, or that of an electrical contractor who occasionally did work there, so they had their inhouse maintenance guy put the wires back up and the lights came on. Some of the temporary help around places like that can get a little drunk and a little rough and there was an altercation, and someone threw a pistol under that trailer when the law showed up. Well the Sherief's deputy crawled under that metal trailer and dang near got electrocuted. I'm sure you know what had happened. During the investigation this guy who thought he knew all he knew all he needed to know was questioned. He said "there were two wires and I hooked them both up".

Point is, a lot of beginners, be they electricians or clock repair people, pick up bits of advice like Dick mentioned, some good, some not so, and they too late the discover that they don't understand everything they know. Some good advice has been offered, additionally I suggest getting a few good books on clock repair and get a good foundation in how a clock works. If one does not fully understand how it works, one cannot be expected to be able to properly repair it. Books by Steven Conover are good, and there are others.

RC

 

[shutterbug]

At the top of the forum is a whole section on "How to do it" articles. Read the ones on bushing with hand tools, and beat setting 101. Here's a link.
I would not recommend a three train clock as a first experience. They can be frustrating.

 

[JTD]

At the top of the forum is a whole section on "How to do it" articles. Read the ones on bushing by hand and beat setting 101. Here's a link.

Yes, that's the one I mentioned in post #5.

JTD

 

[Willie X]

AFAIK, clock repair has only three things in common with beekeeping.
1 - You can use dark sticky refined bee's wax to hold tiny screws on a screwdriver.
2 - The thin coated bee hive frame nails (3/4", 1' & 1 1/4") are perfect for rebuilding old cases.
3 - No matter how long you stay at it, you will never ever learn all there is to know about bees and clocks!

Good luck with your new hobby,
Willie X

 

[demoman3955]

Ok I read and read never been so overwhelmed on bushings. I watched the videos but, I have no tools but enough to disassemble my Urgos uw32 movement and checked all pivots and marked oblong side and plates to rebush. I have pivots measuring .7(1)1.7(5)1.1,(1)3.0(3) that need rebushing. I reassembled back gears for confidences and remeasured with my harbor freight caliper. (Fixed income sorry) I think I need fwm l12, l21,l16,l28 the 10 ct timesavers assortment only covers 21,16. So I will have to spend $20 ea on l12,l28?
I would like German tools and everything expensive but it ain’t gonna happen. Just saying, I obtained 6 stand up clocks 5 work but I will inspect as I am able. This one first. Urgos, I bought tweezers screwdrivers I have a few tools at my cave. I will buy what I can as I can so… horologists of seasons, lol can you steer this old electrician in the right direction. I am probably one more chime from being thrown out of my domicile from my wife but that’s another day. I simply love this stuff and wished I found it younger. I ultrasonically homemade! assembled and cleaned all 5 clocks, rinsed, blew air, dried oiled and never had more fun enjoying this retirement thing. I guess I need reamers, honers and some good advice so I figured you guys might know a little bit after all the you tube and this forum everyone loves. Please help if you can. Thank you in advance!

what part of the country are you in? Im in oregon and seen a lady selling her husbands tools. No idea if he knows it, or if hes even still alive. lol. She dosent know what she has and wants to sell everything, and im too poor to be able to afford anything.

 

[Willie X]

On most American clocks and many German clocks, you can go pretty far with the following:
1 - #3 KWM cutter (with Bergeon shank)
1 - Bergeon drill press adaptor.
6 - Packs of KWM bushings to be #s 14, 17, 20, 38, 41 & 88 would be good.
1- set of reamers. These are to size the pivot holes in your new bushings. Note, more bushings = less broaching.

In time you will need many more items but this will give you a good started for less than 150 bucks.

Check with Mile Hi Clock Supplies They are closer to the bushing business than most.

Willie X

 

[Jmiod]

Ok I am in MI but there is shipping and I would certainly entertain buying used equipment let me know guys. A sincere thank you and I tip my hat for your encouragement and advice I read and digest all your ideas and recommendations. I contacted my local nawcc chapter president Ray Fowler, what a helpful nice guy, in MI and they have a chapter meeting in Dearborn MI on Sunday I will meet and greet there. Quite possibly I can pick up a few of the items I learned here. I do read and read believe me but I am so new to the repair I also need actual watching and making mistakes, lots of them to learn. I have bought some cheap movements in clocks and destroyed them learning, they went to clock heaven given their life to my schooling. Now I know now that this is just fun stuff, I get it. I know the hobby clubs are invaluable and they are a great toolbox of knowledge to rely on. So again thanks for your replies and I will be bugging you quite regularly. I hope to learn a lot about this new chapter in my retirement and your certainly in my plan. If you’ll have me as a new cub.

 

[Jmiod]

Kind of embarrassing,

Well I screwed up a lot,

When I received this Seth Thomas mantel clock it wasn’t running, so of course, I air cleaned it, knowing I need to disassemble to hydrostatic clean later, oiled it with syringe and 0w20 syn motor oil, and I played with the balance wheel, bent the fork all over the place, thinking it was just out of adjustment , nope!, how do know how bad I made them? I did learn a great deal, I see the balance wheel is about $64 sound right?—online, are they available used? Where would one look? Now I know it needs bushings.

I read, watched and tried to educate myself but I had to actually try disassembly of my first movement, except I could have taken better pictures I found. Ok first try reassembly, I did it, I bent pivots trying to put back the plate on top, then tried straightening and destroyed gear pivots for this Thomas legacy movement, is it even repairable or where would I obtain this gear?

Do gears look like they are in correct order with exception of broke one?

Is this movement salvageable after my mistakes so far? Or trash?

First time sending pictures on forum trying to show :
movement #
gear damage
time train position of gear
repositioning of reassembled trains

Are pictures ok?

Honestly, after writing this I don’t feel real smart.

Thanks
James
James

 

[Jmiod]

I marked the pivot holes for my first rebushing does it look prepped ok I read to mark the oblong holes on the at rest side to keep holes from drifting? Some solder unfortunately was used by someone to possibly repair pivot hole 2x I will have to heat and remove or is there a better way? Looks like it’s next to a post, of course! Sunday I go to my first meeting to buy tools then first hand bushing next week.

 

[JTD]

As far as your broken pivots are concerned, the arbors can be re-pivoted by a competent clock repairer.

The balance on your clock is a type called a 'floating balance'. I can't really see from the photos what you have done to it - it may be repairable or you may need to replace the whole unit.

Others will know more.

JTD

 

[Jmiod]

As far as your broken pivots are concerned, the arbors can be re-pivoted by a competent clock repairer.

The balance on your clock is a type called a 'floating balance'. I can't really see from the photos what you have done to it - it may be repairable or you may need to replace the whole unit.

Others will know more.

JTD

Ok thanks JDT
James

 

[Willie X]

Put this one in the scrap pile and pick something simpler.

A single train movement is ideal. A two train is usually OK for a beginner. There is a current thread on a 'Sessions regulator', something like that would be a good beginners project.

Starting at a high level of difficulty usually leads to nothing but failure and frustration.

Willie X

 

[R. Croswell]

.........I air cleaned it, knowing I need to disassemble to hydrostatic clean later, oiled it with syringe and 0w20 syn motor oil, and I played with the balance wheel, bent the fork all over the place, thinking it was just out of adjustment , nope!,..... Now I know it needs bushings......... I bent pivots trying to put back the plate on top, then tried straightening and destroyed gear pivots for this Thomas legacy movement, is it even repairable or where would I obtain this gear?.............Is this movement salvageable after my mistakes so far? Or trash?

Honestly, after writing this I don’t feel real smart.

One thing I feel sure of is that you are actually a lot smarter now than before you started.

It is a classic newbie mistake to assume that a dead clock can somehow be brough back to life by changing all the adjustments that have been fine for the past 30 years. Now you still have the original problem and a bunch of new ones. That floating balance can get dirty, especially if someone made the mistake of oiling it, but the balance and the mainsprings are two of the least likely causes of a clock not running.

This movement is not very forgiving, and your first attempts at bushing installation will probably not be up to the level of precision demanded by this movement. Yes, I think this one should be dumped in the spare parts bin. Look for an American made mantel clock with open springs and get some experience with a movement that doesn't break so easy.

RC

 

[Kevin W.]

All good advice given. Clocks are cheap to buy. Look around for a simpler movement to learn on.

 

[Jmiod]

Point taken thanks guys

 

[bkerr]

Like it has already been stated. This type of movement is often, not always, just replaced. I would start with an American time only or time and strike. Black mantel clocks can be had for a song. I would think this be a good start. Correcting other fixers problems is a major pain. If you see solder, stay away for now. If you can find a old dirty ugly movement that has not been abused, that is the one I would choose.
Find out if you like the work, buy some tools and keep learning.

 

[Jmiod]

Thanks all for taking your time to answer my questions I will take the advice sincerely.
James