Christopher Gould, 1690-1695

[Bernhard J.]

Last Saturday was the Dr. Crott auction, and I had made several written bids in advance, because of other obligations on that day. Most of my bids were without success, but one. Of course, I do not yet have it in my hands. Thanks to Dr. Crott for the allowance to use the photos.
I did not not get it for the lower estimate, but quite close to that
What do you think (critical comments welcome, as always)? I would date it in the first years of the 1690s, correct? The movement, dial and hands seem to be authentic. The case, as often, might be original or not, I assume the former. The general condition seems to be quite nice.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

Last Saturday was the Dr. Crott auction, and I had made several written bids in advance, because of other obligations on that day. Most of my bids were without success, but one. Of course, I do not yet have it in my hands. Thanks to Dr. Crott for the allowance to use the photos.
I did not not get it for the lower estimate, but quite close to that
What do you think (critical comments welcome, as always)? I would date it in the first years of the 1690s, correct? The movement, dial and hands seem to be authentic. The case, as often, might be original or not, I assume the former. The general condition seems to be quite nice.

Cheers, Bernhard

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Quite nice.

FWIW, here's the info provided by the auction listing:

"Christopher Gould of London, was born around 1660 and was free from the Clockmakers' Company in 1682. Gould had a reputation as an excellent maker of long case and bracket clocks. His clocks are of supreme quality and among the most attractive English clocks of the late 17th and early 18th century. Gould died in 1718."

Furthermore, it was cataloged as dating c. 1700.

RM

 

[jmclaugh]

Congrats Bernhard, a lovely clock by one of the most highly regarded makers of his day. The spandrels look to be the C&W pattern No. 5 who say it was usual on high class 12" dials from 1695-1710 and was a special favourite of Gould.

I don't see anything to indicate it isn't all original.

 

[Bernhard J.]

I tended to date it a little bit earlier due to the signature being engraved under the chapter ring, and not in it. But I may be wrong.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Beautiful dial, movement looks great. Not sure about the case. What size is the dial?

 

[Bernhard J.]

What size is the dial?

You presumably want to know whether it is 10 inch, or smaller. 10 inch would indicate 1700 or later, smaller would indicate earlier than 1700.

I do not know, because the auction text remains silent about this. I will report.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

You presumably want to know whether it is 10 inch, or smaller. 10 inch would indicate 1700 or later, smaller would indicate earlier than 1700.

I do not know, because the auction text remains silent about this. I will report.

No, 10" suggests pre 1700 along with the other features. The case suggests post 1700 with some indications by quite a lot.

 

[Bernhard J.]

I had thought that 8 or 9 inch were typical of early clock dials.

 

[Jevan]

I had thought that 8 or 9 inch were typical of early clock dials.

That's true for the really early verge longcases that came immediately following the introduction of the pendulum c.1657 but by the early to mid-1670's it was not uncommon to see a 10 inch dial.

 

[Jevan]

Here's a similar Gould dial, the clock was exhibited at the Grosvenor House antiques fair in 1998, unfortunately I have no further information.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Here's a similar Gould dial, the clock was exhibited at the Grosvenor House antiques fair in 1998, unfortunately I have no further information.

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That really is similar apart from the 3rd train, and the case is more what I would expect.

 

[DeanT]

Hi Bernard,

Lovely dial and movement. I expect its probably an 11" dial but I wouldn't be surprised its 12" (as there is quite a bit of space around the outside of the spandrels for the engraving) which could place it around 1700. Gould signed many of his later clocks on the front plate so this isn't a good indication its early. Interesting that he doesn't use half quarter markers either.

At first glance the concave mouldings place the case in the 18thC which seems at odds with the standard convention of early dial signature style but as I indicated Gould did not follow. I would place more weight on the dial size than signature for dating Gould clocks. Larger dials were used earlier than often suggested in some literature as well. I've seen a 12" dial from 1680's so its possible.

Without getting a good view of the fitting of the dial mask and seatboard etc I wouldn't rush to a conclusion about the originality. I do note that the scribe mark on the backboards is in perfect alignment with the top of the seatboard which gives me some confidence about the originality. Never say never and always avoid always when examining clocks...LOL

What I can say for certain is that the dial is superb and I really like it plus the case is lovely as well. As a consequence it will look fantastic in your house! I did toy with the idea of bidding for it but the postage would cost more than the clock which is an obvious deterrent on bidding for longcases when not local and I think the significant increase in freight charges has had a negative impact on longcase prices.

Cheers
Dean

 

[Jevan]

I would place more weight on the dial size than signature for dating Gould clocks.

Although not common there are instances of dial plates being signed along the base and again on a plaque.

Admittedly later but the image below is of a George Graham longcase, I suspect there are more but I've noticed thirty four Graham clocks signed in this way… by design or using up out dated stock, I suspect the latter but who knows?

 

[DeanT]

Very interesting Jevan. I would think George Graham wouldn’t have been working under his own name while longcases were still signed on the dial so I suspect it was just his thing!

 

[Bernhard J.]

What I can say for certain is that the dial is superb and I really like it plus the case is lovely as well. As a consequence it will look fantastic in your house! I did toy with the idea of bidding for it but the postage would cost more than the clock which is an obvious deterrent on bidding for longcases when not local and I think the significant increase in freight charges has had a negative impact on longcase prices.

Indeed international freight charges are a factor to be considered. In the past I had the luck that freight charges had been borne by the seller (within Germany) and only in one case I had to fetch it myself, but only about 150 km away. In another case the auction house will bring the clock to it´s Berlin residence, where I can pick it up easily. I expect the freight costs for the Gould clock to be around 100 €, with a specialized transport service. Still quite reasonable.

 

[Philip Snowden]

Last Saturday was the Dr. Crott auction, and I had made several written bids in advance, because of other obligations on that day. Most of my bids were without success, but one. Of course, I do not yet have it in my hands. Thanks to Dr. Crott for the allowance to use the photos.
I did not not get it for the lower estimate, but quite close to that
What do you think (critical comments welcome, as always)? I would date it in the first years of the 1690s, correct? The movement, dial and hands seem to be authentic. The case, as often, might be original or not, I assume the former. The general condition seems to be quite nice.

Cheers, Bernhard

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WOW !!

 

[Joe Gargery]

Bernhard, the dial of your clock looks remarkably similar to the dial on a clock I picked up a few months ago.
At least to my novice eye.
Joe

 

[Rich Newman]

Bernhard, as you know, he was a very good maker. Great dial but I also love the hands. 11 inch dials were quite common during the 1690's and by the proportions may be what's on this clock. I don't see hinges or a door to access the dial for winding. If that's true, than its a rising hood which would indeed be another indicator of a pre-1700 clock. That's one of the first things I look for - - what was the original design for the hood, which was very often modified later to slide forward rather than up.

Looking very forward to seeing more pictures when it arrives. Congrats!

 

[Rich Newman]

Bernhard, there is a marquetry example by Christopher Gould, with an extremely similar but slightly earlier dial to yours circa1690-1695 in Tom Robinson's "The Longcase Clock" on page 81. Send me a private message if you don't have this reference book.

 

[zedric]

I don't see hinges or a door to access the dial for winding. If that's true, than its a rising hood which would indeed be another indicator of a pre-1700 clock.

Hi Rich

The second photo (from the first post in this thread) is taken with the hood door open, so you can access the dial for winding. So not a rising hood, but it would have been a very late example if it was.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Hi Rich

The second photo (from the first post in this thread) is taken with the hood door open, so you can access the dial for winding. So not a rising hood, but it would have been a very late example if it was.

Not sure I've ever seen a rising hood with a cavetto moulding under it.

 

[Bernhard J.]

I will report when I have it (which might be in a few weeks).

 

[DeanT]

I will report when I have it (which might be in a few weeks).

I'm quietly optimist it all original based on the scribe line highlighted in red.

 

[Bernhard J.]

For all those, who are able to read German, here are two articles by Jürgen Ermert, who is well known to the precision pendulum clock community, about Christopher Gould and his clocks. Part two also suggests that indeed my dating should presumably be corrected to "ca. 1700".

I would not assume a context with the recent auction, because these articles were written more than two years before this auction.

https://uhren-muser.de:8080/epaper/chronohype/chrono-7/#32

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[P.Hageman]

What a fantastic clock! Here's my humble Chris Gould, lantern clock same age I think. Still a pity of the hand, but hey its the original one

 

[Philip Snowden]

V

What a fantastic clock! Here's my humble Chris Gould, lantern clock same age I think. Still a pity of the hand, but hey its the original one

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Very nice and the hand top quality but isn’t it a 30 hour Hoop and spike wall clock with a lantern movement ?? I would say more than Humble in fact very desirable absolutely love the dial .

 

[Bernhard J.]

Today it arrived . And very well packed and transported, so no damage anywhere Now it is set up and running, well in beat and the countwheel synchronised (there is a small lever protruding sideways from the movement for actuating the count wheel lever)

It looks really original in all respects, even nails are clearly contemporary. Seatboard, movement and case match well. The dial measures 11,7 inch (29,7 cm). The hood is not rising, but pushed on from the front, as usual later. Interesting is that the door in the hood apparently has nothing for opening and cannot be opened. You need to know that inside the hood there is a latch with a latch spring. This is arranged such that if one pulls a cord end hanging in the main case besides the striking weight, then the door in the hood opens. The way this is made lets me believe that this is no later addition.

I am happy!

 

[DeanT]

Today it arrived . And very well packed and transported, so no damage anywhere Now it is set up and running, well in beat and the countwheel synchronised (there is a small lever protruding sideways from the movement for actuating the count wheel lever)

It looks really original in all respects, even nails are clearly contemporary. Seatboard, movement and case match well. The dial measures 11,7 inch (29,7 cm). The hood is not rising, but pushed on from the front, as usual later. Interesting is that the door in the hood apparently has nothing for opening and cannot be opened. You need to know that inside the hood there is a latch with a latch spring. This is arranged such that if one pulls a cord end hanging in the main case besides the striking weight, then the door in the hood opens. The way this is made lets me believe that this is no later addition.

I am happy!

Sounds very good. 12" dial and lack of rising hood suggests early 1700 as expected. Look forward to some photos.....PS the hood door is open in one of your original photos from the auction house.

 

[Bernhard J.]

It is running about 15 minutes fast in 24 h and the bob nut is already at the lowest possible position (2 or 3 turns of the thread left). No surprise, because I have the precisely running Knox and Wood clocks in the same room as "tick tack" references and had already noticed that the Gould runs fast.

The suspension spring seems to have the correct lenghth, so the rod (or the thread for the bob nut) presumably is too short. This correlates with bob marks at the rear case wall (resulting from the bob touching the rear wall due to incorrect setup at some earlier time) being a bit lower than the present bob position.

I will attend to this by occasion. Such a nice clock should be capable of running precisely. I will presumably add a self made thread extension for the bob nut, provided I can make a thread matching well with the existing bob nut thread. This approach does not change any of the existing components, only adds a component, and is a completely reversible measure.

The extension needs to have a lenghth of about 30 mm.

 

[Bernhard J.]

Here are few photos of the anchor. Look how beautifully made this is.

I needed to take it out, because the crutch was loose and turned slightly while running. With the result of the clock becoming off-beat. Easy fix with Loctite on the crutch thread. And reversible, Loctite is softened at about 80 °C.

 

[P.Hageman]

Even on this small part of the clock you can see the hand of a master clockmaker!

 

[novicetimekeeper]

What a fantastic clock! Here's my humble Chris Gould, lantern clock same age I think. Still a pity of the hand, but hey its the original one

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I know a laser cutting company that could replicate the whole hand from a scan and you could take the bit you need from it to replace the missing part. Just about to do the same for a clock by another famous maker.

 

[P.Hageman]

I know a laser cutting company that could replicate the whole hand from a scan and you could take the bit you need from it to replace the missing part. Just about to do the same for a clock by another famous maker.

Send you a pm

 

[Alex KVASHIN]

Just interesting how the anchor fixed to the arbor. Is this the sort of welding?

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi Alex,

I wondered about this too, but did not take it apart for obvious reasons.

Several methods are conceivable. 1) it is simply clamped (unlikely imo), 2) it is soldered and very well trimmed, 3) the jaws have flat projections on the inside and the shaft corresponding shallow pockets, and it is snapped on.

In case of 1) I would expect it being secured with a pin. 3) would be very elaborate. I think it is 2), but maybe a more knowledgeable expert knows more and chimes in. Welding will imo not be likely.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Jevan]

I have seen joints like this before, it will be soldered and in the examples I have seen the solder is of a vivid yellow tint and hard solder.

Although mostly from strike trains the images below demonstrate the principal, sometimes they are dovetailed and sometimes just a straight slot, sometimes a beautiful fit and sometimes the solder makes up a lot of the joint.

Initially I thought the dovetail or fitting was the strength in the joint but over the years I began to wonder if it was merely to hold the joint in position while the solder was applied as I have no idea in the seventeenth century if, or how, a localised high temperature flame would be directed at a small joint.