Chelsea Ship's bell mainspring replacement

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Gennaro, Dec 22, 2012.

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  1. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Greetings,

    I'm new to this forum and have a bit of experience with clock repair. I have a Chelsea 4 1/2" clock with a broken mainspring that I would like to replace.
    My first question is for the proper size I found
    CMH 135.1 ......…. 17/32 ...... 13.50 ......... 0.010 ....... 0.26 ............... 72 .................… 34.00 ............ $ 9.15 .....… $ 26.10
    from MileHi clock supplies and would like to verify that it is indeed the correct size.
    Second does anyone that has experience with these have any tips and/or pics for this project?

    Any help/insights would be most appreciated.

    Cheers!
     
  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Hi, Gennaro, welcome to the message board. Your best way to know what mainspring is required is to measure the spring in your clock before ordering a replacement. A micrometer is needed to measure thickness.
     
  3. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Thanks Harold, I have a mic but do not have the main out just yet. I was hoping to get a good idea before dis-assembly.
     
  4. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    When you remove the MS you will likely find that the outer hole has torn out. This is the most common failure mode and not that difficult to repair. If the spring is broken anywhere else you will have to seek a replacement.

    Willie X
     
  5. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Thanks Willie.

    So just cut ahead of the damaged area, make a new hole, lubricate and replace.

    Any recommended lubricant for the Chelsea spring? Graphite?
     
  6. Dick Feldman

    Dick Feldman Registered User

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    Just a word of caution.

    That Chelsea movement is not one that should be tackled by a novice or intermediate repair person. There are quirks with disassembly and assembly that will cause headaches at the very least. There is a good chance that further damage can be caused by an inexperienced person.

    Parts are at a premium as Chelsea has tried to limit the purchase by “normal” repair people. Chelsea, of course, recommends you send the clock to them for service. These movements are more prone to click return spring failure than main spring failure. Normally, when a clock spring fails, there is secondary damage.

    Once an inexperienced repair person has reduced a Chelsea movement to a box of parts, it is much more expensive to have a qualified technician put it back to working order.

    Best Regards,

    Dick Feldman
     
  7. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Don't use graphite as a spring lube. Get some of this: Slick 50 One Lube.jpg It works great for most of us. When repairing a broken spring you do as you mentioned, but you need to anneal it with heat at the end before punching the hole in it. Also, if you go with a new spring, they come with an anti-rust coat that looks like lubrication. It isn't, and the spring needs to be cleaned off and lubed before use.
     
  8. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Dick, thanks for the info I will look at the click return spring when I take it out of the bulkhead mounting.

    Shutterbug, I appreciate your guidance also and will get the slick50 1 lube, also will be sure to clean the mainspring if it gets to that.

    Happy Holidays to All!!!
     
  9. Jay Fortner

    Jay Fortner Registered User

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    Yep!,more like he said.
     
  10. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Hello again everyone, however I don't know if anyone is going to get this. Apparently life has a way of interrupting just about everything I do.
    I am getting back into this Chelsea Ship's Bell clock and had the mainspring out to see what was wrong. The end has ripped and instead of the slot for catching the rivet it had a forked end. The design of this clock makes it easy to take out either spring without disturbing anything else. I think I will buy a new replacement Time spring instead of clipping, annealing, and punching a hole in the end.
     
  11. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    You would be better off clipping, annealing and punching a new hole. The modern springs are a crap shoot for quality.
     
  12. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Thanks for the advice about the new springs.

    One question I have at the moment, since this will be my first time removing a spring from a can, what is the best way to do it since the hole on the outer end is ripped and when winding it keeps slipping. Also can you describe the correct way to anneal the end, torch?
     
  13. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    If you have a spring winder, wind the spring while carefully moving the barrel away from it. The spring will gradually slip out. When it's about half way out, you can tie it tightly with wire and remove it the rest of the way using the same procedure, or you can just keep a tight grip on the spring in a gloved hand until it releases from the barrel. Hold it so it can't spring out of your grip, and it will slowly unwind as you open your hand (I know that sounds scary, but with normal sized springs it works fine). If you don't have a winder, very carefully remove from the inside to outside, unwinding it as you go. Don't pull too hard or you will cone the spring. Put it back in the same way, but outside first. To anneal, put the end in a vise (that acts as a heat shield) and heat the end until it glows red. Slowly back the flame away, letting the spring cool slowly. It is now annealed and ready to punch a new hole and shape it with a file. No need to re-harden the spring.
     
  14. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Removed and repaired the mainspring end, cleaned, wound it back into the cylinder lubricated with the Slick50 and reinstalled in the clock. Wound it up and gave the movement a little touch to start the beat and it is now working!!!

    Thanks to all who contributed to this thead for the help I couldn't have done it without your help!
     
  15. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Good job, Gennaro! :thumb:
     
  16. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Thanks for the help! However I am apparently not done yet. The clock is running slow, loses about 5 min/day, and the speed adjustment has no effect on it. I did notice that in addition to the speed adjuster arm there is another, smaller arm which the movement (?) spring is attached to, not sure what this one does or if it has any bearing on the speed, did not touch that one. Any ideas?
     
  17. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Double check to be sure the suspension spring passes through both slots in the chops.
     
  18. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    Forgive my amateurishness but is a suspension spring in all clocks or just pendulum types?
     
    Bujumon likes this.
  19. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Just pendulum clocks (the pendulum is suspended from the suspension spring, hence the name).

    JTD
     
  20. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    As I suspected.
    Ok, there is another adjustable arm on the escapement assembly, it holds the end of the coiled spring, in addition to the one that moves when the speed adjuster is turned. So I happened to move this arm and the mechanism began ticking on it's own (a good thing, in my mind) I also had a beat detector (does not have decimal resolution) and now when the speed adjuster dial is turned I can go from 150 to 151 bpm.
    Any comments on this, I would post a pic but my camera does not do well on close up of small objects.
     
  21. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I suspect that you do not have a pendulum movement, but you haven't said one way or another. Pictures would clear that up.
     
  22. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

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    #22 Gennaro, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
    attachment.jpg Close as I can get, I found this image online, my camera and phone won't take a good pic of mine.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    That makes a big difference! I doubt that this speed issue is in that platform, but it wouldn't hurt to clean it up in One Dip or Naptha gas. Don't put it in an ultrasonic cleaner, just dip it and dry it. Then test it. If it still runs slow, I would suspect issues in the other parts of the movement.
     
  24. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    So remove it as a unit, and put it in a bath of the solution? Naptha = Coleman fuel?

    Air dry or blow dry?
     
  25. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Yes. Or a hair dryer is acceptable.
     
  26. Gennaro

    Gennaro Registered User

    Dec 22, 2012
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    I did not remove the platform to dip it. Instead I made an adjustment to the arm that holds the end of the spring (Seems like some kind of "loading" adjustment), and am able to slow the clock down and speed it up.
    After a few days of testing I now have the clock running well and it seems to have settled into the correct beat. The speed adjustment on the face of the clock now makes fine adjustments.

    Thanks to all that have helped with this project and I will post back here if something else crops up but, for now, it looks like we're keeping good time.
     

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