Charles Murray, clockmaker London

There is a Murray widow (not a merry widow but who knows) who received income from a charitable fund for clockmakers set up by East, but that is a bit earlier. A father?

 

Not everyone who was apprenticed would have gone on to make clocks under their own name - to do that you needed to be a businessman as well, and have enough money saved to set up your own place. So many went on to be journeymen. Some might have tried to strike out in business only to fail. It might be worth looking at bankruptcy court records or the like to see if you can find him?

 

Nice - case looks like it has had a bit of a polish between the first and second photos..

 

It comes up a treat. It would be good to hear those bells chime.
Was Thomeas Dyde, or maybe his father a blacksmith, so that once they were in a company ( read union??), they could then legally make clocks having been properly apprenticed?
David

 

Different lighting, different camera, no polishing. First pic is from the auction house. I use a floodlight for infil and now it is autumn I have to use flash.

 

My understanding is the livery companies only had control in the City of London, but yes you had to be in a company to make a clock, so you had served an apprenticeship to become a member of a company and free to trade in the city. It didn't have to be the clockmakers, broderers and goldsmiths also made clocks and watches.

 

Dean, Are you going to replace those ordinary looking movement to case brackets with something closer to what was probably there originally?
David

 

I don't think he will be allowed not to Will do a video this eve if I remember, first day back after half term, may just fall asleep!

 

Good!! Even though he says he will look into it and I am sure he will apply due diligence, they still don't look right.
ß

 

It's a fairly early clock with some of its own idiosyncrasies, the first think is to look at the straps and see if the are wrought iron, because that would age them. I'll have a look under the microscope at the structure and how they were made.

It's Dean's clock, but I know the repairer and he loves a bit of bling. I know he has replaced straps before but the problem then is do you get them engraved? Blank brass even of the correct colour is going to stand out more.

 

For sure I appreciate he has the final say over his own clock and I know him well enough to know that he will make the right decision and not do anything thaat he feels is historically inappropriate.
David

 

Those brackets are made by a smith. They may be original, they are certainly old.

The bells aren't fixed very firmly, I had to fiddle with them to get anything approaching a decent sound, they need an expert.

 

You can see the brackets have been forged.

 

Interesting observation of the brackets from being there "onthe spot" and thanks for the video of the bells; despite their slightly infirm sound, I can hear that they have a really nice sound - or so they sem to me anyway.
David

 

The bells are just a bit loose. I ran it before when I first took it out and it sounded much better, should have done a vid then. I wrapped it to go to the clock repairer then unwrapped it again for the video but all the bells had moved and it just made dull thuds. I had a play and got them back to working sort of. As you say you can hear their potential rather than how they should be.

I suspect that when it comes back from the repairer all perfect it will again go through this stage as I may be advised by the repairer to remove the bells for shipping, Dean will then have to set it up again. There are already two here that will have the bells removed for shipping. Some clocks don't have the strap at both ends of the set of bells leaving them rather vulnerable. I will, though, take another video before that.

 

I just looked up this thread because I have the privilege of having collected the clock from the repairer, I had not seen it for a very long time due to Covid and not seen the case since restoration.( I last saw the chap who restored it in February)

I will take pics for Dean tomorrow but I have to just say, the back of this clock is SPECTACULAR, and the front is no slouch either.

 

It is staggeringly beautiful at the back and the dial has come up really well too. I think the corner frets must be later but the overall look is excellent.

 

Not my clock but I just have to post this

 

I think you could say that that "OK" is pretty fantastic !! I also love the sharp clarity of the bells.
David

 

This is a very fine clock and it looks beautifully restored. I like it a lot !
I have a very similar bracket clock, probably made a little later. It is a grande sonnerie. The case is modern, especially made to suit the movement and dial. Here are some photos.

 

always nice to have the back of the mock pendulum slot engraved too.

What is the case?

 

The case is made of English oak veneered with walnut. When I purchased this clock, it was already in replacement case and I did not like it. So, I commissionned this new case from an English craftsman from London, after having seen one of his cases in Clocks magazine.
It looks like the back of the mock pendulum slot and the apron still retain the original gilding.

 

It needs a thread of its own with the maker in the title or nobody will find it if researching the maker.