Charles Jacot August Saltzmann and Frederick Nicoud

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Dr. Jon, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:39 PM.

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  1. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    I would like to use this thread to pull together information on these makers and their relationship.

    What I have found leads me to theorize that Jacot had most of the ideas on watchmaking, and filed the patents, which were assigned to Saltzmann. Saltzmann put up the capital and Nicoud joined and may have contributed the signature gold and blue steel hands.

    My first example supports the idea that Jacot and Saltzmann were partners once Jacot returned to Switzerland and begn exporting watches.

    This is a 22-24 size pivoted detent chronometer.

    Dial_1.png

    The dial originall had two feet which have been ground off. It is not rim attached and seems to have been on the watch from its origin.

    There are no holes for feet in the dial plate.

    Under dial.png

    the watch number 499 is engraved along with S&B Co which I believe to be Saltzmann and Jacot. Saltzmann's name is first because, I believe, he was the senior partner. There are not holes for dial feet sp the dial seems have been rim attached and is probably original. There are not a lot of 20-22 size rim dials around and it has some minor damage.

    The movement is almost certainly from Louis Audemars.
    Movement.png

    This very unusual detent chronometer with helical balance spring shows up in Zantkes book. The example shown has a different balance cock and is free sprung. A balance cock very similar to this is on another helical spring pivoted detent example in the Zantke book.

    The case is silver but marked only with the watch number and a trademark.

    Inner back marks.png

    The crown mark is very similar to the trademark roistered by Jacot in partnership with Courvoisier, when he worked in New York.

    upload_2020-7-1_1-37-19.png
    Obviously this is not a gold case but there were no laws against using this mark on a silver case in the US.

    I suspect this is an early example from the Jacot-Saltzmann partnership and if the hands are original and they seem to be, the precede bringing Nicoud into the group. Case+_Mark.png
     
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  2. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    I don't have any information to add except what might be gleaned from my Saltzman movement, which measures 17 lignes across the dial. I have seen another Saltzman movement with very similar bridges, but it has a right-angle lever escapement and lacks the stem-wind modification (which I think is a later addition).
    Saltzman_d.jpg Saltzman_ud.jpg Saltzman.jpg
     
  3. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Thanks for the post! I believe this is Saltzmann, pre Jacot partnership.
     
  4. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    I don't know if this is of interest or maybe a Saltzman feature but I thought I might look at the escapement for anything notable. It seems to be an unremarkable, even low-grade, single-roller escapement except perhaps for the banking. It appears to have a separate ring (steel?) inserted in the milled recess for the balance on which the fork banks.
    Saltzman_bankingring.jpg
     
  5. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    That is a very interesting escapement to me and remarkable on three counts:
    1) it is knife edge single roller
    2) Side mounted jewels, assuming tha pallets are jeweled
    3) The collar looks like enables some adjustment of banking.

    The Swiss were very much against adjustable banking pins as used in English and American watches but solid banking did not allow reducing the drop if over cut.

    This example leads nicely into the Jacot example which is typical of the form I hope to explore in this thread.

    Dial.png
    Jacot now has the two color hands we usually see on Jacot, Nicoud and Saltzmann watches.

    This is a 6 size hunter case key wind ket from the back as the cuvette shows.

    cuvette2.png
    The signature in Jacot's Superfine Straight line lever, almost as if he owns the watch!

    The case is Swiss but he wants the buyer also to understand that it is hallmarked.

    Gold mark.png

    The movement is now in the form patented in 1859.

    Movement2.png The patent is on the arrangement of the plate that holds the click wining and three wheel bearings, It is flat and held by three screws. The patent mentions the cuts to allow access the the three wheels it holds in place.

    Saltzmann watches are of this type are nearly the same except that the click spring is outside of the plate, The rest of the layout is the same as is the font for the information in the watch.

    Jacot points out all the features of this movement but avoids stating that it s adjusted.

    The escapement is is unusual and in a way carries on from Jerry's' example.

    escapement 2.png
    The magenta arrow show the unusual way the lower plate is cut out. The banking is solid against the cut in the plate but relieved to get the same idea as Saltzmann's collar, The back cut allows the "solid" banking to be bent slightly to reduce the banking although this would require a lot of force to do.

    The lever arm (indicated by the blue arrow) appears to be aluminum bronze with the fork pallet frame and counterpoise pressed on to it. The thinking seems have been that this approach would minimize mass for a poised lever. The escape wheel teeth have raised tips.

    The jewel count is mysterious to me, Without caps on the lever pivots it seems to a 19 jewel movement unless the mainspring barrel is also jeweled, I would have to take down the watch to check this. Movement2.png
     
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  6. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    As you can see, the fork on my Saltzman (post #4) had only a rudimentary finish. It does have pallet jewels that are set English style. By the way, the second hand on this watch does have a two-color finish - gold and blue. (The hour and minute hand are just blue and likely a replacement set).

    I also have a Charles Jacot movement, later than yours, that has banking like yours; my escape wheel is flat. (movement photo is old, but I have taken a new photo of the escapement). It has a double-roller escapement. The dial side of the pillar plate is stamped "J&G".
    Jacot9133.jpg Jacot_9133_escape.jpg
     
  7. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

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  8. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    thank you
    I have long searched for a link for the 2008 article, without success.
    regards enrico
     
  9. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

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    Hi Enrico!
    Previously the articles could be downloaded for free. Now i can't see which years are saved, but i have all the articles for quite a few years. If you interested another article, maybe i can help to you;-) If i'll be near
    to my computer, i will write down which years i have in my possession.

    Here is one site, where are listed the articles from classic uhren magazine:
    Klassik Uhren Zeitschriften Klassische Uhren Zeitschrift Index

    Regards! Peter
     
  10. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    I was able to get the files. I hope to post translations into English. Wunderbar!!
     
  11. sternerp

    sternerp Registered User

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    Hi Enrico!
    It is in my possession: Klassik Uhren magazine from the 2003/03th copies to 2012/05th.
    Regards! Peter
     
  12. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    thanks for the availability, I will send pm
    thanks enrico
     

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