Caveat Emptor

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by novicetimekeeper, Feb 15, 2019.

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  1. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    I was browsing recently and found a clock I knew with a plate on the dial identifying the maker.

    I'm no fan of nameplates, they are far too easily added to anonymous clocks and often hard to prove one way or the other.

    This time though I know, and I must admit to being surprised to see such blatant fraud by a clock dealer. I suppose although I realised the risk with these nameplates I never really thought about who was doing the fraud.

    I've reported them to various authorities though I doubt much will happen.

    It should serve as a timely reminder, be careful with your money!
     
  2. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Nick, thanks for letting us know! Even a dealer I thought him to trust.........................
     
  3. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Yes, I've known him for years and he is very well known in the trade.
     
  4. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    Disgraceful and blatant fraud.
     
  5. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I've done what I can, the sad thing is the clock had value to serious collectors before he defaced it.
     
  6. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  7. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Tomorrow I can provide links
     
  8. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    We could always post the original auctions?
     
  9. zedric

    zedric Registered User

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    #9 zedric, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
    While we are waiting, let’s play a game of spot the difference. Two carriage clocks, both in very distinctive cases. One with a name on the dial, quite a famous name when it comes to carriage clocks, and another, that sold a few month earlier, with no name. Although the difference in price was not as much as could have been expected given the name that appeared on the dial of the second one, it might have been because the style of clock was quite out of keeping with the name that appeared on the dial.

    Clock #1 sold in September 2017 An English gilt brass carriage clock Unsigned

    Clock #2 sold in January 2018 A GOOD LARGE ANTIQUE BRASS CARRIAGE CLOCK by Dent of London, with circular

    Amazingly, both clocks, which have different dials, and one with a famous name on it, had the exact same finger marks on the right hand side of the movement backplate. Odd, that..
     
  10. zedric

    zedric Registered User

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    You see all sorts of oddities if you watch auctions long enough.

    This one I hadn’t seen before. There is an auction upcoming at a well established US auction house, where the movements and cases of two of the long cases for sale appear to be swapped. That could have happened when the owner had the clocks, or when the auctioneers were setting them up, but either way someone with a limited knowledge of longcases would have surely been able to spot the 100 year difference in age between movement and case in both.

    Both clocks will likely sell, as marriages, for less than their true value, but if my assessment from front on photos alone is correct, and the movements are swapped, then if someone were to buy both and reunite movements to clocks, well.. either way, the seller will be out of pocket. caveat emptor, caveat venditor, or just take care out there..
     
  11. mauleg

    mauleg Registered User
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    That's because the clock in lot 319 was listed under: Home > Furniture > Decor & Accessories > Christian Crucifixes; divine intervention, that...
     
  12. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    As nobody appears to be interested to do anything about it I approached the vendor last night and ask if he had damaged the dialplate adding the label from the clock he bought last September to this one. I said I would be interested in buying it if the dialplate had not been damaged.

    Obviously keen to make a good profit he told me he does as little as possible to them so he had just superglued the namplate on.
     
  13. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Sold for £416. Clock breaking is very profitable, you can sell whole clocks on ebay or door hinges, locks, weights, pendulum rods, bobs, pulleys, dial/movement. If you can add a nameplate to an anonymous clock you can add value selling to the unsuspecting buyer. If you do it with superglue at least you don't damage the original dial.

    Ebay won't act on anything like this, they get paid so they are happy, hopefully the buyer will be pleased. I think what annoys me more than this one is when they break up clocks that are completely original and in their original cases.
     
  14. Phil G4SPZ

    Phil G4SPZ Phil
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    But it's despicable. One of my other hobbies is vintage and antique radio, and this sort of thing happens a lot, particularly where large old radiograms are involved. The output valves or tubes are rare, highly sought-after and therefore valuable, so these are removed and fetch more at auction than the entire radio, the remains of which then most likely dumped.

    I'm sure it happens in many other areas. Clocks are allied to the antiques trade, which does seem to require particular care on behalf of non-expert buyers.
     
  15. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Thanks for the links :)
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    The sad thing is I'm sure the clock could have got sold for a good profit without the unnecessary addition.
     
  17. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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