Case hallmark ID help needed.....

Harold Visser

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Aug 24, 2000
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I know i've seen this mark before, but not sure if it's gold filled or solid. Anybody have any idea? Wish I had it in my hand, but it's not available to me yet, the selling price depends on case value...
thanks, Harold
 

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Jon Hanson

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A better picture is needed.
 

Jim Haney

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I don't see anything like it in Roy's Trademarks books. The red flag to me is the word "WARRANTED"
 

Larry Seikel

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Warren Niebling's watch case book shows 2 different patent applications in 1890 by the Metropolitan Watch Co., for watch case trademarks. A horseshoe, open end down, is part of both (and is similar to the one in the picture you posted) But no mention is made in the patent applications as to the case material or construction.

Best Regards,
Larry Seikel
 

Jim Haney

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Larry,
Yes, the Metropolitan trademarks are in Roy's E. trademark books, however, similar is not the answer Howard is looking for. The horseshoe of the Metropolitan has 3 acorns on top of it and doesn't have any floral ( may be wheat leaves) around it, as the one Howard has pictured.
 

Larry Seikel

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Hi Jim,
Yes, one of the patent applications in Mr Niebling's book shows three acorns above the horse shoe, as you have described. In the picture Harold posted, I couldn't tell for sure if there was anything above the horseshoe (or might have been there at one time).
The first patent application (using the acorns) also shows a 3 leaf clover in the horseshoe. I thought that could be a 3 leaf clover under the shoe in Harold's picture. The patent application has wording that gives some wiggle room to the use (or non-use), and positional placement of some of the elements of the trademark.
In the 2nd Metropolitan Watch patent application in Mr Niebling's book, the horseshoe is used without acorns.
In both of the Metropolitan Watch patent applications, the word "STANDARD" is shown on both horseshoes. I can't make out on Harold's picture if that might be there now, or had been there at one time.
All this offered just as food for thought......no declaration that this IS what it must be.
 

Harold Visser

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Thanks for the info guys, I guess the old rule applies, "If in doubt go with the gold filled price." I'm going to base my price on the assumption it's a gold-filled case......
 

Jon Hanson

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Te marking as read is NOT solid gold. Any expert can tell from the "feel."
 

Harold Visser

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Aug 24, 2000
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Jon, maybe you missed the part in my original post where I stated it was not available to me to hold in hand, had that been the case I would have known instantly by "feel" if it was solid gold or not, hence the question.
 

Jon Hanson

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REPEAT--The marking as read is NOT solid gold.
 
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