Case and Movement Mark ??

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by John Pavlik, Jul 16, 2020.

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  1. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Bought this watch at auction recently.... It has an unusual case mark as seen in the attached photos...Case is 18k... The same mark is stamped on the top plate very near the center wheel... Is anyone Familiar with the mark ? Movement is a Higher grade Swiss with a Wilmont’s Patend Regulator ... Private labeled for a Michigan jeweler .. I have not seen a case mark along with the same Mark on the movement before....

    863B1E0E-D3AC-4DD5-ADED-369E4AC1C7FB.jpeg 1E17149D-96B2-470F-AD36-D3180EE80610.jpeg
     
  2. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    #2 roughbarked, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
    Looking in Mikrolisk...
    Closest so far is Yoshida Japan.

    Screen Shot 2020-07-17 at 8.13.48 am.png

    Do you have a full photo of the movement?
     
  3. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Sire do...

    ECA96C2E-028F-456A-A10E-2CDB77FB5572.jpeg
     
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  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    #5 Steven Thornberry, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
    Does it really have "Milwaukee, Mich." on the movement?
     
  5. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    Is this, perhaps, our first "Japanese Fake"?
     
  6. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    What's the private label name, John? I can not make it out at all.
     
  7. captainscarlet

    captainscarlet Registered User

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    I could be wrong but the mark on the top plate looks like the Tiffany & Co ‘Liberty watch’ mark. The movement looks to be a Le Coultre ebauche.
     
  8. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Rick, The private label is for James H Hoes... a noted silver smith and jeweler in Milwaukee Wi and Chicago.. not sure why it says Mich .? I would not describe this as a Japanese Fake by any stretch .. Very high grade Movement .. I would agree it possibly is a Le Coulter movement.. very similar to some Tiffany Movements I have seen..
     
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  9. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    you are right John, this was supplied by LeCoultre to Tiffany about 1880
    regards enrico
     
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  10. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Problem solvered.
     
  11. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Thanks Enrico, very much appreciate your identifying this movement.. James Hoes was An active jeweler active during this date and I would be curious if the movement was ordered directly from LeCoulture ?
     
  12. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    So, what is the relationship between Tiffany and James Hoes?
     
  13. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    I have wondered that also... It appears that the watch is a Private Label Tiffany watch ... It does match a page from a Book dedicated to Tiffany time pieces ...Serial numbers are close also ..
    8337 vs 8403

    35097A83-A8DB-45C6-B8C8-0789F3F7EE3D.jpeg CAAF9C9E-4000-4E9D-B52A-DE49BEC79F5F.jpeg
     
  14. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Tiffany was a repair depot of Patek Philippe and perhaps others. They may have done this to sell private label watches .

    My Google Search found a Milwaukee Junction in Michigan. Perhaps Hoes was a had the railroad watch inspection post for there.
     
  15. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    I found some news on James Hoes
    regards enrico

    Hoes.jpg Hoes 1.jpg Hoes 2.jpg
     
  16. John Pavlik

    John Pavlik Registered User
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    Thanks again Enrico.... A bit more I found on Hoes ... Very similiar to your information.. Would you know if LeCoulter supplied movements to the Tiffany factory in Geneva ? The Tiffany time piece book indicates these movements were manufactured at their company in Geneva

    F87360A6-75E4-4069-A0B1-06EE1B66718D.png 47129BB1-CFBB-4AFD-B4E1-B1853255D51D.png
     
  17. eri231

    eri231 Registered User

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    in LeCoultre's biography I don't find news about Tiffany, I think because the American market was managed by Auguste Sandoz (Agassiz) and Albert Wittnauer. only in 1936 was founded " LeCoultre S.H. of America " directed by Jacques Monod. S. H. (Specialité Horlogerie) company of the dealer Cèsar de Trey who died in 1935
    regards enrico
     

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