Cant regulate 341-020 Hermle

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Silverball84, Mar 20, 2017.

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  1. Silverball84

    Silverball84 New Member

    Mar 20, 2017
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    Hello first post in the forums. I have a schoolhouse wall clock with a 341-020 Hermle movement that I cant seem to regulate the time from week to week between winding. I have fully disassembled, cleaned, re-oiled, and checked all pivots for wear. Everything appears to be in great condition. This problem existed prior to servicing, and was the main reason for the full tear down. It is my clock so I don't have a deadline to meet or anything. Suspension spring isn't mangled, leader and pendulum have no slack, but one week it will be off 5 minutes fast so ill turn the rating nut slightly to lower the bob and the next week its 15 minutes slow. Has a nice healthy beat always, no skips or ordinary sounds. Hands are free from obstructions. What else can I check? Open to suggestions.
     
  2. Clockrepairforfun

    Clockrepairforfun Registered User

    Jan 31, 2017
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    Welcome. I'm a newbie myself. Do you have pictures? That usually helps.
     
  3. Silverball84

    Silverball84 New Member

    Mar 20, 2017
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    What pictures would you like? I'm not sure what pictures would help with this but I'll post whatever you want to see.
     
  4. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    This clock is capable of keeping a rate of + or - one minute in 7 days. The problem may be in the rating assembly itself. Make sure the bob is actually setting on the rating nut and not binding on the shaft or stick. Also, it's best to set the rate by lowering the pendulum until the clock is losing time and then raise the pendulum 1/4 turn per week until your close.
    Check the hands to see that each hand has some end-shake, with space around the shaft at the dial hole.
    Any binding at the crutch eye or pin can cause rating irregularities. Did you remove the mainspring for servce, a stickey MS can cause rating troubles. Others will give you more ideas.
    Willie X
     
  5. dad1891

    dad1891 Registered User

    Feb 28, 2014
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    #5 dad1891, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
    Silverball, I had a Hermle 1051 that gave me exactly the same problem. I tore the movement apart 3 times and <almost> started drinking before I figured out what the problem was. During the 3rd teardown I noticed that there was absolutely no chamfer on the inside of the back plate pivot hole for the hand shaft. Took a countersink and put about a .030 chamfer on the pivot hole. Reassembled and it has kept perfect time ever since. There was a very small radius on the hand shaft pivot and every time I would reset the time by moving the hands, it would move the radius closer or further away from the back plate, thereby increasing or decreasing friction.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin

    Nov 13, 2011
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    yes... this one just bit me on my colonial/winterhalder 5-tube... the bob was not sitting down all the way into the little piece above the rating nut. i kept making fine-tuning adjustments that weren't... doh! :cool:

    i like dad1891s response, as well.


    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  7. dad1891

    dad1891 Registered User

    Feb 28, 2014
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    One thing that I didn't mention is that an easy way to check whether my suggestion is really the problem is to let the power off the time train and pull the minute hand as far toward the front as it will go, then wind the spring. Stick it back in the case and if it runs fast, that may very well be the problem.
     
  8. Silverball84

    Silverball84 New Member

    Mar 20, 2017
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    Thank you all for the suggestions. I did put a chamfer on the back plate as I had a different clock do this before and found the minute arbor was sticking. I had thought about mainsprings but I don't have a winder and didn't feel ready to tackle pulling a spring out of the barrel without one. I may have to do that just to rule out the springs as a potential failure point. The bob is free to move up and down, and is resting on the rating nut as it should. The crutch eye isn't binding on the leader and there is no slack at the suspension spring or the pendulum to cause any loss of power. I'm thinking the mainspring would be the next best thing to check and hopefully that's it. Ill check the hands again for free play but i'm confident that they aren't binding. There has been weeks where I didn't adjust the rating nut and the time would jump so i'm thinking mainspring, but I wanted to toss it out there for anything else I may have missed.
     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator

    Oct 19, 2005
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    If you can't remove the mainsprings, take them to your local shop to have them removed, cleaned, lubricated and re-inserted. One other thing to check is the condition of the minute hand bushing. If it's loose and sloppy, the hand will slip.
     
  10. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    And the clutch for the center wheel.
    Tinker Dwight
     
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