Can anyone tell what kind of tool is this? Came from old time watchmake shop

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by vintagedigger, Mar 11, 2016.

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  1. vintagedigger

    vintagedigger Registered User

    Jul 5, 2013
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    hello, guys, does anybody have any idea what kind of tool is this?
    it came from a watchmaker old shop. it looks it is a part of a lathe assembling, it has
    a pivot, like a puncher on the side, that goes up and down.


    thanks in advance for any help.


    20160310_080329.jpg 20160310_080159.jpg 20160310_080208.jpg 20160310_080219.jpg 20160310_080230.jpg 20160310_080252.jpg 20160310_080329.jpg
     
  2. neighmond

    neighmond Registered User

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    It looks like the remains of a sewing machine attachment; perhaps a button holer or zigzagger/fancy stitch attachment.
     
  3. flynwill

    flynwill Registered User
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    Doesn't look like any part of an sewing machine I've ever seen. It does appear to be a punch of some sort, and it's pretty clearly part of some larger machine not a stand-alone tool. Does the slot we can see in picture #5 go all the way through? Could this have been meant to punch a tape of some sort?
     
  4. vintagedigger

    vintagedigger Registered User

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    hello, not it doesn't , it just goes far enough even with the bottom plate. whatever it does, the target must be in that very narrow space between the two plate, i was thinking in a puncher time clock for worker. but i don't see how it will do it.
    whatever it is, it print numbers. under the spring there is a roll of number in negative, like cut in the plate instead of 3D going up.
    the number start 0 to 9 and the in the same line in order 0 to 9 again.

    Regars
     
  5. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    #5 MartinM, Mar 13, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
    It's the punching mechanism for piercing the paper disc of a watchman's clock to tell the overseer when the clock was last opened (to keep the watchman from punching all of his stops in one trip and then taking a siesta for the rest of his shift. The only punches in the disc should be from when the supervisor used his case key to open the clock or close it after winding and installing a new disc.
    It's also where the station keys were inserted and turned to impress the number of the station on the disc. Each key (at a specific location on his route (tour) had a single number in positive form that matched the profile and position of one of the series of numbers you see in the trough below where the key inserts.
    This would have been from one of the many variants of the Newman design.
    http://www.watchclocks.org/Types/20th_Century/Newman_Line/newman_line.html

    The clock it came from would be a round aluminum case.

    ETA: Looking closer, I'd guess it was a Simplex, based on it needing a square-ish case
     
  6. vintagedigger

    vintagedigger Registered User

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    thank you very much Martin, very interesting information. at least now I know where it came from.
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I've never seen anything like that in a watchman's clock. And I did work for Simplex for about 13 years.
    A watchman would never have the key to open the clock. Each area he visits has a numbered station key that he inserts in the clock and turns, which stamps the time and the key number on a tape (pressure sensitive, in the newer square clocks). He cannot fake it unless he has a spare set of station keys.
     
  8. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Here are a pic of the clock and the part, in situ:
    Simplex exterior.jpg Simplex Interior.jpg
    These were from before I restored the clock. It's the older square bakelite version that uses a paper dial.
     
  9. vintagedigger

    vintagedigger Registered User

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    there is not doubt, that is exactly 100% the part that I have. thanks for sharing the pictures.
     
  10. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    That clock is older than any I serviced while with Simplex, Martin. Made by Howard?
     
  11. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Yes it's a Howard clock. Dating these clocks is kind of hit or miss. Would you have any marketing, use & care, repair, etc. information on Simplex tour clocks that you'd be willing to share? That stuff is almost as hard to find as the consumables for them.
    I don't know why I started collecting them (Army guard duty was the closest I ever came to being a night watchman and we never used anything like these). God knows they're not attractive. I guess I just like the concept. They are generally, very well built mechanisms.
    As a repairer of these I would ask you... Did they seem overly abused, in your judgement? I can just see how, if a guard were to miss his appointed stops, he might think that blaming it on a 'malfunctioning' clock would get him out of trouble and attempt to disable the clock.
     
  12. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    When I worked for Simplex we would put them under a preventive maintenance contract and oil them twice a year, which I suppose was overkill, and often resulted in a gummed up platform escapement when they got oil they shouldn't have had. The later clocks, actually made by Simplex, had plastic cases, that often needed replacing due to dropping them. Simplex also had the typical round cased clocks as made by Detex, in the 1950-60's. I don't know how old the Howard might be, a guess would be 1920-30's. I'm going to move this thread to clocks general as it is now apparent the part shown was not a tool.
     
  13. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Hey, Harold.

    Would you have a contact for provision of the consumables for the type you worked on? I've only got two paper reels for the various clocks I have and all the ink ribbons are dry or worn out.
     
  14. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    You could try contacting your local Simplex office, Martin. The newest ones I recall used a pressure sensitive tape, and no ink ribbons. American Time and Signal might also be a source for ribbons. Anything I have would be at least 30 years old and well past its best before date.
     
  15. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

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    Detail tape from a Vibrograph B200 which is still available from some watch material suppliers might be suitable for such an application.
     
  16. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    #16 MartinM, May 10, 2016
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
    The Vibrograph tape would be way too wide. The rolls for these machines are the same form factor as a typewriter ribbon. As are the ink ribbons.
    The latter isn't too hard to re-ink or reload from bulk typewriter ribbon reels. The former is proving harder to find.
    I haven't seen any that used the equivalent of NCR carbonless tape (as far as I know). I do suppose it could work, though.
    All I can find for that is cash register paper
    https://www.google.com/search?q=ncr+tape&rlz=1C1AVNG_enUS623US623&oq=ncr+tape&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l4.3519j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=ncr+carbonless+tape+roll&safe:^ff&tbm=shop
    The closest thing I've found, so far, is Amano PR600 report tapes.
     

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