Can anyone recognise this?

Phil G4SPZ

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Hello everyone. After a lengthy closure, the Museum where I work as a volunteer has found this clock under a bed, where it appears to have lain for some decades. It contains what appears to be a well-worn and punched-up Welch movement which has had its striking train removed. No makers’ names are visible on the 12” diameter dial, case or movement.

I plan to restore the clock as a timepiece only, for use in the Museum’s Chapel. It would be interesting to know if it’s American or Anglo-American, and how old it might be.

Many thanks!

Phil
BF6D1312-B955-40F3-B653-3FDCD8A5B2F1.jpeg
 
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Steven Thornberry

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It certainly appears to be Anglo-American. Can’t be sure about the date, possibly 1870’s or 1880’s. What’s the movement look like?
 

Phil G4SPZ

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Hello Steven,

I didn't take a photo of this clock's movement, but it's virtually identical to the movement in the photo below, which I'm reliably assured is by E N Welch. Minus the strike train, of course...!

Welch movement.jpg

Phil
 

novicetimekeeper

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It has two winding holes, doesn't it have a strike train?
 

Steven Thornberry

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With such a "J.C.Brown-style" Welch movement, I might be willing to place the clock a decade earlier, i. e., 1860's to 1870's.

BTW, if you are familiar with Peter Gosnell, you might do well to run this clock by him for comments. One of his interests are these Anglo-American clocks.
 
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Phil G4SPZ

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Steven, thank you very much for your interest and advice.

The Museum are not sure where the clock came from, but it is possible that it once hung in the Methodist Chapel, and that's where it's destined to go once I've restored it. According to their website: "Before it was at the Museum, the Methodist chapel was built as Providence Church in 1837 at Darby Hand in Netherton, Dudley." The clock is probably not the original clock in the building, which closed down in 1974 and was relocated to the Museum in 1979. However it is conceivable that someone took out the strike train as such a feature wouldn't be in keeping with a Chapel environment, although they could simply have not wound it up!

Like many of the clocks in this Museum, its provenance will probably remain something of a mystery although we have no shortage of old American clocks, some of which go back to 1860 or thereabouts. I don't know Peter Gosnell and he doesn't appear to have been active on this MB recently, but I do know John Taylor "the American clock man" here in the UK, and I will run it past him.

Phil

Chapel.jpg
 
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Phil G4SPZ

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Steven, searching the MB for other threads on "Welch Anglo American" produced one in which you asked this question: "Is the wood dial surround attached to the case by dowels, by chance?"

Well yes, the dial surround is indeed attached by four square-headed wooden dowels, two of which are missing. Does that tell you any more about this clock?

Phil
 

Steven Thornberry

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Steven, searching the MB for other threads on "Welch Anglo American" produced one in which you asked this question: "Is the wood dial surround attached to the case by dowels, by chance?"

Well yes, the dial surround is indeed attached by four square-headed wooden dowels, two of which are missing. Does that tell you any more about this clock?

Phil
The dowels seem to confirm that the clock is an Anglo-American.
 

Phil G4SPZ

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John Taylor, an authority on American clocks in the UK, has kindly replied to my question, and advises:

"Your clock is Anglo-American (American movement, English case) from 1880-90. The case (rosewood with mother of pearl roundels) is distinctive and one which does occur quite often and was marketed in English shopping catalogues like Kays of Worcester and Fattorini of Bradford; so I always thought was likely to have been a Birmingham made case.

As well as whole clocks, most of the American companies (Waterbury, EN Welch, Ingraham, Gilbert, Seth Thomas and Ansonia) sold loose movements to the English trade and these were cased up (mainly) in London and Birmingham. Because some Anglo-American clocks appear in American clock catalogues and were called in these catalogues, 'English Drops', there is evidence that England did supply cases and completed Anglo-American clocks back to the US.

The movement is unmarked and could be from a number of companies... EN Welch is a possibility as they... marketed a similar 'English Drop' clock."


It's nice to think that the clock has remained relatively local to Birmingham, where its case was probably constructed.

Phil
 

jmclaugh

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Holloway & Co of London and J. C. Plimpton of Liverpool made cases for these clocks and movements by Jerome & Co and Newhaven are often found in them.
 

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