Can anyone help date & identify this clock, please?

[cuilvona]

Hi,

A friend has given me this clock to try get it running.

She was fairly sure that it is German & I would tend to agree with that. From the initials TH behind the pendulum I'm guessing that it might be a Tomas Haller clock - Mikrolist doesn't seem to offer any other suggestions, but the image on the clock doesn't quite match the given trademarks. Any thoughts?

I'm also guessing an age of early 1900s, but have neither the experience nor any evidence to support that hunch. Any suggestions?

I'm fairly confident that I can get the movement running but any advice on repairing the beading round the glass would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help,
Arthur Jones

 

[Ticktocktime100]

Hi,

As you suspect, your clock is indeed German and by Thomas Haller, given the trademark. I would place the date around 1890, possibly just nudging into 1900 but no later. I'll let others provide advice regarding the beading, but perhaps a resin of some kind which can be shaped correctly would be a decent option?

Regards.

 

[new2clocks]

To add to what Ticktocktime100 stated, the "T over H" trademark is that of Thomas Haller AG.

According to the Mikrolisk website, Thomas Haller registered four different "T over H" trademarks. Two of them were registered in 1896, one was registered in 1908 and one was registered in 1923.

Junghans purchased Thomas Haller AG in 1900. As the trademarks are very similar, it is reasonable to say that your clock was made no earlier than 1896.

Your clock could have been made after the Junghans purchase of Thomas Haller AG in 1900.

Jumghans continued to use the TH trademark after the acquisition. As a result, it would be helpful if we could see the back of the movement to narrow the date of manufacture and to confirm or correct that the movement is a Haller movement or a Junghans movement that was branded a Thomas Haller AG movement by Junghans.

Regards.

 

[new2clocks]

Mikrolist doesn't seem to offer any other suggestions, but the image on the clock doesn't quite match the given trademarks.

This is not uncommon.

Trademarks that are registered with the trademark offices are often a bit different than what shows up on movement, dials and ephemera.

Your trademark is not exactly like the any of the four trademarks that show in mikrolisk. And, three of the four trademarks are very similar to each other. Therefore, a look at the back of the movement may be of assistance.

Regards.

 

[JTD]

You can restore the missing beading using two-part moulding putty such as Milliput. Folow the instructions on the pack for mixing the putty. As the moulding on the clock is the same pattern all round, just press the putty onto a good section and wait for it to harden. (Be sure to grease the part you are copying with oil before you press on the putty so that you can remove it).

When the putty has hardened remove it. Then make up some more of the two part putty, oil the hardened one which is now your mould, and press the newly mixed putty into the mould. Allow it to set until it is not quite hard and carefully remove it from the mould.

Allow it to harden completely and then you can cut it to size, put it into the missing spaces and color it to match. (Milliput is also available in various colors). Once hardened, you can cut, file, saw or sandpaper the moulded piece.

JTD

 

[cuilvona]

Thanks all for your helpful comments. I've attached a picture of the back of the clock - there is no trademark or stamp on it, though I don't know if the 4 punch marks in the bottom left corner tell us anything. There were similar marks on the inside of the backplate.

Regarding the beading - thanks for the modelling putty idea. I'll follow that up.

 

[JTD]

Regarding the beading - thanks for the modelling putty idea. I'll follow that up

Yes - but it's not just ordinary modelling putty. I don't know exactly what it's made of but it's a two part product, you get two pieces in the packet. You have to mix equal parts of each stick together and then use it fairly quickly before it sets, just like using a two part adhesive such as Araldite. 'Milliput' is the brand I have.

I don't know if the 4 punch marks in the bottom left corner tell us anything. There were similar marks on the inside of the backplate.

They tell us that a past repairer punched the holes to close them up a little. He should really have bushed the holes, but perhaps he couldn't afford to or didn't know how. You see these punch marks on a lot of old clocks.

JTD

 

[new2clocks]

The following is the closest I can find in identifying your movement and a possible date of manufacture.

The following movement is from a Thomas Haller AG clock:

It is an alarm clock but has certain similarities to your movement.

This movement came from a clock that was offered in the 1905 Junghans / Thomas Haller catalogue CD supplied by Victor Tang.

In that same catalog, the following clock was offered and looks very similar, although not exact, to your clock:

Notice the TH label on the backboard.

Whether the above clock used your movement or a similar movement, I do not know, but perhaps we are piecing together the puzzle.

I will search some more.

Regards.

 

[cuilvona]

The movement certainly looks similar with the (to my way of thinking) unusual arrangement of the escape wheel on the front face. If TH was using the same plates for several clocks it might explain why the winder is offset on my clock rather than in the more normal 6 o'clock position. The clock front you show is certainly very similar though I note that it does have a central winder. Do you happen to have a picture of the top of the clock as well?
Thanks for your efforts thus far - much appreciated.
Best regards,

 

[new2clocks]

Do you happen to have a picture of the top of the clock as well?

No, unfortunately.

However, there are folks here who purchased the Victor Tang CDs of various catalogs. These folks could review the catalogs, especially circa 1905 catalogs, to see if the clock is shown.

Regards.

 

[cuilvona]

I've just found Milliput on the internet - I wasn't sure if I could get it in the UK. Sounds ideal.
Thanks again.

 

[cuilvona]

Looking at the Mikrolisk website again, I notice that the Junghans trademark is based on an 8 pointed star. I also notice that on both the clock which you illustrate & on my one, the TH mark is contained within an 8 pointed star. Coincidence? Or does it suggest that both were produced after the merger?

 

[new2clocks]

the TH mark is contained within an 8 pointed star. Coincidence? Or does it suggest that both were produced after the merger?

Your observation is very interesting, but I do not think we have enough information / documentation to make that conclusion.

Regards.