Cable Drum Plastic Guard Hermle 1161

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by RRCos, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

    Apr 10, 2016
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    Hello all..

    I have recently received a floor clock, which has a Hermle 1161 movement. The cable drum for both the strike and chime cable have a plastic drum guard.

    The issue in question is.. both of these cable are winding around the top of the drum guard (photo below).. which is causing the cable to snag when the clock is wound. Exactly what are these plastic guards protecting.? Is there a fix for this.? And are these plastic guards necessary for the clock to function properly.?



    Thank you..
    Bob

    [​IMG]
     

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  2. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    Bob, the cable is supposed to be under the guard for it to work properly. You will have to let down the cable and start again, with it under the guard.
     
  3. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Thank you Harold..

    I did let it unwind completely.. where the cable was back under the guard.. but it went back over the guard upon winding the clock.
     
  4. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    If it works at all, like it is, that would indicate that the long pins that hold the guards in place have been broken off or removed.
    The clock will work just fine without the plastic guards, as long as the weights are in place. Remove a weight and you've got a problem ... sometimes a BIG problem.
    The fix would be to replace all three guards and the missing pins.
    Might be a good idea to check the date code before worrying with the cables. These movements don't last very long.
    Good luck, Willie X
     
  5. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Thank you Willie..

    I will inspect closer to see where those clips belong.
     
  6. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    It might be the broken part of the plastic that is causing it to pop
    over the top.
    These were placed there such that if the cable no longer had the weights
    pulling it tight to the drum, it would keep the cables from tangling into what
    we call bird nesting.
    This is where one part of the cable overlaps other parts.
    If it is allowed to run that way, the cable can be damaged when it
    pulls out from under the overlapped part.
    It can also suddenly pull out a portion of the cable that was loose,
    allowing the weight to drop a few inches.
    This can cause the cable to break.
    The plastic was put there to stop bird nesting from happening
    Most older clocks didn't have such and one needed special care
    when moving these clocks. One either let the cables completely
    down or tied them to the seat board to keep then tight until
    the weights could be replaced.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  7. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Thank you Dwight

    That makes perfect sense. I will remove them for now and replace them if I need to move the clock; before I remove the weights..

    Even in a few clock repair videos out there.. they did not show what kept these plastic guards from spinning.
     
  8. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    You can just pull them off. If they are old and dry, they will break. This is no loss, just tells you that they needed replacing anyway.
    Willie X
     
  9. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    can you buy them as spares? I've been thinking about getting some plastic terry clips to secure lines when shifting movements, but if these were available in the right size presumably I could use those.
     
  10. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    You could buy them, but they are made to fit the movements they were made for. They would be unlikely to be useful for any of the clocks you have. They need to have a "pin" that is there to keep them at one point on the movement where they are effective. Without this pin, you have problems like our poster has.
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    I wouldn't want to leave them on, I usually use masking tape but I have some movements that need to be kept like it for an extended period and I would prefer a mechanical system as the adhesive on the masking tape is only designed to be removable after a short period.
     
  12. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    I've never had a problem using Duct tape to keep the cable from birdsnesting. Doesn't leave a noticeable residue of glue.
     
  13. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Thanks to all for some good and helpful information. I was able to rewind the drums and replace the drum guards without the bird nest problem.

    The time drum (pictured below) has the pin and drum guard intact. The chime drum guard has the pin missing and the strike drum guard has a broken tab... which brings me to an even worst dilemma. If one tab has broken off from being brittle.. I should replace all three.. except that the time drum guard, in the center of the movement, can only be removed by removing the plates. I have never taken a movement apart and the thought of this particular movement appears pretty complicated.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     

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  14. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    RR?
    You are lucky. The center retainer is the most important, as there is little access if you have a tangle. The outer two have much better access and you can keep the old retainers, if they don't break, and just push them back on if you have to take the weights off.
    This will allow you to test your movement furthur.
    Willie X
     
  15. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Since they are not necessary for normal operation, just remove
    the pieces and leave it off.
    It is only while moving, when you take the weights off that it is an issue.
    You can do one of two things then. One is just to fully unwind by letting
    it run down.
    The other is finding a way to constrain them while moving. Blue masking
    tape is said to work as well as masking tape.
    Remember, cable clocks have been running fine without such extras for
    a couple hundred years. People just found ways to live without CHEAP PLASTIC
    covers.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  16. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    You can likely get your center wheel out by removing the other two. The guard pin should screw out. Then wiggle it out one of the sides.
     
  17. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    The guard location pin is pressed in on these. You can work the cable drum out to the side, after removing the other drum/s, though. However, it's not that easy to get all the parts back in their proper position. Getting it back together is pretty easy, PROPERLY placing everything will take a while and a you will need a good movement stand.
    Willie X
     
  18. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Well, I oiled the movement and put it back in the case.. It's working fine, but I know that it eventually will fail. It is dated to 1985 and probably well past it's prime.

    I am not prepared to polish or repair bad pivots or replace bushings. When it fails, I will replace the movement with a new one.. then use this one to take apart and learn how to do those types of repairs.
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    That's a good plan. You'll have the identical new movement to refer to as you complete the repairs on the old one, and when you get it all fixed you could consider selling it on one of the auction sites.
     
  20. matthiasi

    matthiasi Registered User

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    Not all Hermle's had the removeable pins, as Willie already mentioned.

    I have had good success in regluing the broken cable protectors with Plasti Zap, once they've been cleaned with alcohol. Haven't had one break at the glued spot yet.

    So- how does the cable end up winding itself above the plastic, if it is placed below it to start:???:
     
  21. RRCos

    RRCos Registered User

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    Hello Mathias..

    The pin that holds the drum guard in place is missing (I did not see it at the bottom of the case). Without the pin, the guard spins freely along with the drum when the clock is wound. That's what caused the cable to wind on the outside of the guard. These do not appear to be removable pins.. they look like they were pressed into the plate.
     
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