1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Does anybody know if there is a difference between 'Buren' of Switzerland and Imperial Buren and Alltrue Buren and also Van Buren - all as a manufacturer of movements? The last items come up for sale in U.S.A.
    Were they all derivatives for the same manufacturer ? The quality seems the vary considerably.I know 'Buren' was taken over for a time by Williamson of England I believe.I have some of that detail. Thank you.:?|
     
  2. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 14, 2001
    5,386
    183
    63
    Aerospace Engineer
    New Hampshire
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    According to Pritchard's Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775 1975 Buren and van Buren are names used by the same company. Alltrue Buren is not listed.
     
  3. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Once again thank you Jon for answers to my obscure questions - this helps suggest they were the same manufacturer.:clap:
     
  4. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    Buren or Büren?

    115.jpg
     
  5. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,790
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Interesting... I thought that Buren was a place as well as a name associated with makers. Here is another association.

    117.jpg
     
  6. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    "Büren" is a city in switzerland, there were a few pw factory's but you must be careful

    In USA the sellers often write
    "u" not "ü"

    f.e.
    "Glashutte" wrong -> real = "Glashütte"

    Buren in GB (Toms watch) can be a watch-maker or a PW factory too.
    But a lot of GB pocket watches comes from switzerland as well.
     
  7. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    The first picture is the classic design for a Buren manufacturer movement type that I know - the three fingers - just like in Grand Prix movements.
    But the AllTrue Buren and Van Buren or Imperial Buren movement pictures I see are not at all the same I think, and that is why I set about asking the question. I have a Buren movement that is a 17 jewell movement and clearly Buren design - but unmarked. Yes, as you say Buren is a place and not just the manufacturer - it sems to have been an area of high quality movement production. I think the history of Buren , the manufacturer, is posted somewhere on the messageboards.
     
  8. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    Büren? Have american keyboards no "ü"?

    I think the other company's name i real "Buren" and the city is "Büren" or Bueren"

    (i)
     
  9. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,790
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes, American keyboards have no umlaut. It can be formed by a multiple keystroke, but few know how to do it. In addition, I think the umlaut was dropped in English speaking countries.

    Kendal & Dent was a largely artificial company with neither Kendal nor Dent having any relationship to the more famous families of the same name. In the case of Dent the party had a legal name change so he could carry out the confusing commerce. Essentially all their production is Swiss. Here is the movement that goes with the dial shown earlier.

    126.jpg
     
  10. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    hello,

    the movement is made in switzerland, for the "english" (London f.e.) mart. But i don't know produced in Büren, it can be because the watch is a few years older than my watch.
     
  11. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,790
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    There is a long tradition of Swiss watches for the English market. To me they tend to be in two flavors. The first are the obviously Swiss watches with English names that are really just private labels. The second are watches made in Switzerland to English style and structure. Normally this second group is a bit hard to spot since they usually have English engraving.

    Here is an example by the well known maker Quartier that would be taken as an English watch except that it is signed.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Here are two 'Buren' Burens ! Made by Buren in Buren Switzerland .
    Any thoughts re Alltrue Buren etc ?
    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  13. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Here is an Imperial Buren to show what I am talking about!
     
  14. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Sorry didn't work - will try again
     
  15. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    :thumb: they looks very nice. 1A and 1B quality great :clap: That are real swiss movements.

    @tom that is a realy nice one

    I collect swiss "Glashütte" fakes, that is very interesting too...

    127.jpg


    You know "JVC" ?
    Hier is a movement it looks like a real Glashütte

    128.jpg
     
  16. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    I hope this is third time lucky
     

    Attached Files:

  17. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    It looks like a swiss "1$" watch :eek:

    i found one too in ebay for US mart

    Click Here
     
  18. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    So do we think Imperial Buren, Alltrue Buren,Van Buren are not 'Buren' on the basis of quality differences? If not who were they all?
     
  19. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    I don't know... edit -> read next post
    I found an Imperial with Buren watch co. I think the watches from "Admiral" comes from the same company. I had sold one (Admiral) last monday (same dial, same quality)


    Click Here



     
  20. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    Hello,

    i find some new facts !

    Buren watch co. in Büren switzerland

    I thinks the "Buren" watches are all from the same company but in different times and for different purposes



     
  21. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    I guess the other Burens could be some of the 22 Calibers (calibres) presumably meaning 'quality' - but the movement design seems so different.
    I know somewhere I have seen reference to a History of Buren written by a 'works manager I think'. I'll try to find it on the internet.
     
  22. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    I'm more inclined to your view now - thank you for reminding me of some of that history.
    I guess I'm now looking for Glasshutte fakes! No umlaut !
     
  23. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,790
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Have fun with the Glasshuette fakes. Audemars Freres built a factory in Glasshuette so they could make "authentic" Glasshuette fakes. ;)

    They are still, in my opinion, fakes.
     
  24. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    :?| Audemars ? I don't think so, what are the name of this.

    I live 60 km from Glashütte in Saxony but i have never heard about Audemars there. I know Union Hologere, Nomos

    I have here a Landeron as ALS fake, R. Moser

    Assman bought movement in switzerland.

    Have you one Audemars frrom this time?

    :D I found one :D its a cheap production from switzerland called "system Glashütte" but there are many difference to Glashutte.

    http://www.uhren-gold.info/silber/af.jpg

    Glashütte never made broken plates ;) they was ever full

    here an examble from Glashütte watchmaker school "Richard Gläser" from my collection

    133.jpg

    here is a fake with full plate:
    134.jpg





     
  25. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Thanks for the 'Glashutte experience'.Nice photos.Nice Watch.
    Re Buren again - if you are up for it i.e to chase down what 'Buren' is -
    here is a quote from atgwatches website referencing in its late history other famous names linked to Buren !
     
  26. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Thanks for the 'Glashutte experience'.Nice photos.Nice Watch.
    Re Buren again - if you are up for it i.e to chase down what 'Buren' is -
    here is a quote from atgvintagewatches.com website referencing in its late history other famous names linked to Buren !

    Quote :

    'Well that was enough for me, not only is it a great looking watch but it is a milestone in watch technical development and history. 'This' is actually the watch produced by Zenith in their very close race with the (Buren Group (Heuer, Breitling, Hamilton and Buren) to create and market the worlds first automatic chronograph.'
     
  27. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    I think your first 2 Buren are realy nice and that is realy a hot piece of great quality watchs. But the last one is only a export piece without any quality, sorry.

    It has no jewels, bad nickel-quality, not good steel work.

    Note: in switzerland and european markt Chaton "settings" shows quality, polished steel and gold lever escapemen.

    f.e. in Glashütte there was 3 quality's

    1a beste (full chaton's) cost 6000-7000 $
    1b ( centre wheel chaton) cost 3000
    1c ( without Chaton ) 2500 $

    IWC the same but there was only 2 quality's.... but there was some cal. that makes the price,
     
  28. CZHACK

    CZHACK Registered User

    Apr 28, 2005
    710
    1
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    According to Pritchard (Swiss Timepiece Makers 1775-1975) Buren made high and low end watches including many 7 jewel unadjusted marked Imperial for the import company of that name. They also made "a few' very high grade watches for Rolex.
     
  29. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,790
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have had a couple of the Hamilton, etc. automatic chronographs and they are very nice. However, I think the quote should clearly include "wristwatch" since, I think, Breguet made the first automatic chronograph. ;)

     
  30. watchfriends

    watchfriends Registered User

    Jul 23, 2007
    82
    0
    0
    i thought we speak about "buren watch co."? Not about watch from Buren self?
     
  31. richard mortlock

    richard mortlock Registered User

    Jan 29, 2005
    87
    0
    6
    Thanks Tom and CZ ,I had come to the conclusion that the various Buren manufacturer names were related to the sending of lower grade Buren watches to the U.S.A. - a bit like Waltham sending so many Traveler movements to U.K.
    Somewhere I had read that Buren were associated with the 'invention of the automatic wind watch'.
    Just to keep this going a little longer I have found the link of Van Buren to Hamilton and of course know that Hamilton had acquired 'Buren'. Picture attached is from a present ebay sale of a Hamilton 1930 advertisement mentioning Van Buren.This is going to cause me to look at Van Buren movements more closely in future.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page