Building Dr Woodward's Gearless Clock - Wilding by C.Raynerd

Discussion in 'Clock Construction' started by Raynerd, Jun 12, 2011.

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  1. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

    Apr 11, 2004
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    Back in 2003/04, at the age of 20 y/o the professor and my tutor at Uni was mad into Patek Philippe watches. I had a bit of interest and because Patek make hand made watches they after show images of their production shops and this brought out my hidden engineering interests. Knowing I couldn`t buy a Patek, I purchased some old pocket watches off ebay to take apart (Smiths for those interested). I later found out it must have been total luck, but I managed to fix one and suddenly thought I was a clock maker. I decided to buy a Unimat 3 lathe off ebay that I somehow won it at a fantastic price. I made a few posts on this forum and Mike over in Yorkshire invited me around to see his Unimat 3 and clock builds and repairs. In his home we discussed the current ME article showing John Wilding who had just finished writing his plans for Dr Woodward's Gearless Clock and was posting them in Model Engineer mag. Being a fool, I ordered all the materials and purchased the copy of ME. I asked my dad for some help and one Saturday morning we drilled 3 mounting holes for the brass back plate and failed when it came to soft soldering 3 washers on the back!!! I realised very quickly that I didn`t have the skills to make a clock and the materials and lathe were sold.

    So now in 2011, with a couple of years experience behind me, I`m going to give this another bash! I got married a few years ago and have been slowly building up my workshop. I`ve built a Stuart 10V engine and recently the Webster Internal Combustion Engine as well as a few other bits and pieces. All my work and workshop is documented on my website:

    www.raynerd.co.uk

    I recently ordered all the brass plate and received this a couple of weeks ago and I`m just waiting on the remaining materials, mainly imperial bar stock to arrive from College Engineering Supplies. I`ve also taken delivery of a length of nylon cord and some 0.006” spring steel. Last week while on holiday, I appreciatively took delivery of some 1/8” ID bearings from Clive off Madmodder! The only material which I managed to miss off my orders was a 12” length of 2” dia steel. I took my Grandma her birthday card on Wednesday evening and asked her if I had left any materials at her house from the clock (they had been storing it before I sold it). She called me up because the piece she had was too heavy – the only thing for some bizarre reason I did not sell was the 2” dia, 12” length of steel – freaky hey?!!

    This is the clock:

    113.jpg

    Dr Woodward originally wrote about the design in his book – My Own Right Time. Sadly I just not prepared to pay £40-50 for a copy of ANY book which seems to be what this one dictates. I have of course purchased John Wildings lovely write up of the plans and build process. He mainly cuts the clock using a Unimat, I`ll be following his methods unless I can utilize my small mill to better effect which he doesn`t use.
    I should state right away that this build log has be written already by the notorious GadgetBuilder who details fantastically his build of this clock. He has made some excellent modifications of Wiliding’s design, especially the automatic maintaining works. Unfortunately I`m not confident, intelligent or daring enough to deviate from the plans other than a couple of fasteners where I`ll be using metric instead of the specific BA series.
    http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/GearlessClock/Gearless_Clock.html

    The clock uses a really unique method to run. A series of colliding pawls, hooks and rods give the pendulum an impulse, with the energy provided by the large weight.

    Until I have pics to explain in more detail, the best way I can explain is:
    There are two main aspects, the running train and the daisy motion. I`m going to start back-to-front and talk about the daisy motion first. Basically the “clock” mechanism rotates a main arbor once each hour – the minute hand is connected to this. The daisy motion is used to convert that 360 degree hour spin, into a 1/12 of a turn for the hour hand. Here is a youtube video made by gadget builder:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/fdb7_VCaiOE&rel=1

    This is a really neat and novel idea allowing you to generate your hour movement from the minute movement – remember, without gears!! The smart thing is, a taper pin is removed and the entire daisy motion mechanics can be removed! This is why I mentioned this first, that just leaves us with the rest of the motion works.

    Probably best to look at gadget builders explanation but here goes:
    This clock only receives an impulse to the pendulum once every 60 seconds! This means everything involved with the count wheel must be very low on friction. Look at the pendulum and you will find two brackets. The upper one catches a tooth on the count wheel (the top wheel that looks like an escape wheel, NOT the pin wheel) and the pendulum is of such a length that in 60 seconds the count wheel goes around once. I`m wondering if a minute hand could be attached to the countwheel??
    You probably can`t see in the photo, but one tooth on the count wheel is slightly deeper than the rest. When the pawl on the pendulum drops into this tooth, it pulls a lever down at the rear of the wheel. This lever has two section a bit like this “ > “ so as the top lever is pulled down anticlockwise, the bottom lever also moves down. This bottom section pushes down on the bottom “impulse pawl” of the pendulum (the pawl connected to the bottom bracket of the pendulum rod). This actually pulls the count wheel (the pin wheel) anti-clockwise for a second but at this point the weight which is wrapped around the count wheel to pull it clockwise, pulls the wheel back clock wise again. Now however, the levers are not bearing down on the impulse pawl (the count wheel pawl is back in a normal small tooth) and it is free to lift up out of the pin it is holding (the pin wheel also moves through a gate and moves forward by one pin, i.e one minute!!!!) but now the pendulum is at a higher position again – i.e the pendulum has been given an impulse! The pin wheel moves on by one pin every minute and therefore with 60 pins, the pin wheel does one revolution every hour – the minute hand!
    Add the daisy motion to this and you have your minute and hours!

    I`m not going to rush this but to be honest, with no gears the parts don`t look overly complex so I expect to make good progress. I expect like I have experienced with my Webster IC, most of the time will be in the troubleshooting, getting it to run!

    This is the brass sheet required for the construction along with Wildings build book, some spring steel and the nylon chord.

    114.jpg



    Just some proof of the validity of my story about the 2" dia steel bar coming from my original purchase of these materials. I don`t know why I never sold this piece and equally don`t know why I didn`t order this piece when I re-ordered the materials last week. Freaky.... notice the news paper it is wrapped in - 2004!

    115.jpg


    Here is the paxalon rod and the Invar. I`ll be using my Invar now I`ve got it for the pendulum rod anyway.

    116.jpg


    The rest of the materials - lots of imperial bar stock is on order still from College Engineering Supplies. It has been a week now but I`m guessing the order is quite fiddly with lots of different sizes in small quantities. Hopefully it`ll arrive this coming week.

    So I made a start. The first job is to simply prepare the back plate which was £22 of brass! The plate is 9" x 6" but the material is 13-14" x 6.1" as the excess is used for something else. First job was to cut off the excess. I prefer to spend time setting it up on my mill and cut it that way as it leaves a good finish and I prefer it to sawing., besides my saw wouldn`t cut all the way so I`d need to meet from either side which would be doomed to failure. This worked really well using the brass square section to clamp it onto a pair of parallels.

    117.jpg


    I filed the edges square which took a while but worked really well, nice and square. The file is slowly becoming my friend!

    118.jpg


    The next job was to drill three 5/32" mounting screw holes, 2 at the bottom and 1 at the top and then soft solder some 1/16" thich washers to the back of the plate to lift it away from the mounting board when screwed down. I didn`t have any 1/16" washers and although it isn`t critical, I decided to make some. Here it is soft soldered and quickly tidied up. Needs a little more work to remove a little excess solder but has turned out well so far.

    119.jpg


    Next job is to make the pendulum mounting bracket.
     
  2. Allan Wolff

    Allan Wolff Moderator
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    Excellent!
    This is a very unusual and interesting clock. I look forward to following your progress.
     
  3. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Thanks Allan, it does look interesting... I hope it runs!

    Got a little more done this past hour or so as I couldn`t sleep. With the back plate now ready to hold some new parts, the first one is the pendulum bracket. I cut a couple of pieces of 1/8" brass sheet and used double sided tape to secure them together. Machined them square and started profiling them

    125.jpg

    126.jpg

    Still together I drilled the support holes and filed the top suspension "V", finally separating them:

    127.jpg

    I then machined up the centre piece and now I`m left here:

    128.jpg

    129.jpg

    Wilding now says to clamp these side piece together to the centre to drill through and tap so they can be secured. It is late and I`m tired, but I had to stop here because I couldn`t get my head around a method to do this. I only have large clamps over 1" and so any clamp would cover the holes. I could really do with a narrow clamp large enough to go around the whole unit but narrow enough to fits between both holes so they can be done in one sitting. Damn - I hate it when I don`t have the required tooling. I normally always get away with things, they either fit in my small 1" clamp or I can get them with my larger clamps...... hummm...can`t think of any other way of holding it all together and square!
    Until tomorrow.....
    Chris
     
  4. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I couldn`t use the grips they would`t go wide enough and wouldn`t clamp is square. Some how seemed to pull it up at the back. I decided to run around to my mates to borrow one and was in luck:

    137.jpg


    I then aligned it square:
    138.jpg


    139.jpg



    And now it sits nice and square in the top corner - the first part mounted on the backing plate!


    140.jpg

    Next onto the pendulum suspension....
     
  5. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I managed to make the lower pendulum clamping bracket this evening which was a really nice combination of milling and turning. The part will hang off the bracket I made earlier with the pendulum rod screwed into the bottom.

    I started with a rough cut 1. 1/2" length of .5" square brass and milled a 1/4" slot at the end.

    155.jpg

    I then rought cut a 1/4" piece of guage plate, milled one side flat, butted it upto the edge of the groove I`d just cut, clamped together and bolted it through:
    156.jpg

    Tidied each side up in turn, stopping just short of the brass width:
    157.jpg

    158.jpg

    I then transfered the work to the 4 jaw and centred it. I drilled the end 2.BA for the pendulum rod and turned down the square to round (I think this is just for looks)

    159.jpg

    Finally finished with a countersink on the clamping steel and used a nice 4BA screw. Here is the part finished:
    160.jpg

    161.jpg

    The spring still is clamped between the brass and steel sections. The other end connects to the pendulum rod. Tomorrow I`ll try and get some done on the spring steel and top clamp...
     
  6. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I was reading about cutting the spring steel this morning and apparently you punch it out. So as soon as I got home this eveing I had a go. As per Wildings instructions, I folded over a strip of brass, marked out on both the template and the spring steel:

    162.jpg

    163.jpg

    I made this punch but stupidly have rounded the edges so I`ve not ended up with a good clean cut. It worked really well and I did get a disk, but it has pressed the edge a little.

    164.jpg

    165.jpg

    I then went on to make the top clamping bracket:

    The whole lot suspends from the bracket I made in my last post. The plans call for 2BA studing but I just cut down a long bolt, turned down the ends and rounded them:
    166.jpg

    Cutting off two 7/8" brass disks 1/16" in thickness. I then went on to mill a flat on the top and tap one 10BA and the other drilled clearence
    167.jpg

    168.jpg

    Both John Wilding and GadgetBuilder stress the importance of the spring steel being square to the brackets. Wilding suggests this method to lock it all down square:

    169.jpg

    And the final setup:
    170.jpg

    and now fitted with the invar pendulum rod.
    171.jpg

    Pendulum next....
     
  7. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I don`t know if anyone is bothering reading these posts but Hey Ho! :}

    Didn`t do any on the clock last night,... I bloody fell asleep.....fancy that!!! Grrrr

    Got the pendulum up and, well, swinging tonight!
    Hacked off a 4" (just over) length of 2" dia silver steel:
    188.jpg

    Drilled it through 6.5 mm to make an oversize hole for the pendulum rod
    189.jpg

    I re-drilled the top 8mm to a depth of 10mm and then I turned up some bushes out of brass for the ends with a 6mm bore to accept the pendulum rod
    190.jpg

    191.jpg

    192.jpg

    The hole pendulum unit was assembled:
    193.jpg

    And then a picture for those of you that don`t know what a pendulum swinging looks like :lol: Hey, I had to include it!! Photo is rubish but here you go.. in action:
    194.jpg

    195.jpg

    I`m going to need a quick stand so I can easily remove the brass back plate from the wall and then place it back on to test. I don`t know if there is any way of doing this without the faff of unscrewing it each time.
    So a bit of time tidying out my workshop tomorrow and then I`ll make a start on the count wheel. Then I`ll move back to the pendulum pawl brackets and then hopefully I should be able to get a minute timed out by the pendulum dragging the count wheel forward....obviously at that stage the clock will stop after a few mins because it`ll get no impulse but I`ll be able to check the general mechanism is working!
    Chris
     
  8. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Chris, you definately have some followers of your posts (164 have looked in). Keep it up:thumb::thumb:
     
  9. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Hi Harold, many thanks for your reply. It is good to see you are not typing to yourself. Please don`t get me wrong, I`m not fishing for complements. This stage is quite easy but I post my project log to get some advice and suggestions and perhaps encouragement as a go along.

    164 views and 2 additional comments still isn`t great!! :eek:

    Anyway... I`m carrying on posting :Party: as I`m enjoying the build. I got the brass cut out today for the count wheel and so hopefully I`ll make some advance on that tomorrow and should have it cut to shape!
     
  10. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I have MORT. I predict that some day you will get it because once the clockmaking bug bites you will want to read what is a classic about timekeeping written so any non-fool can understand it (by that I mean only people with learning difficulties will have trouble because he writes so clearly using everyday speech).

    Woodwards W5 (yours is W3 = his third clock) ran 100 days keeping time to within 1 second = 1 in 8 640 000. Expressed as as a percentage I wonder when the fist non-9 would appear.

    You can't attach a minute hand on a shaft turned by a seconds pendulum in 60 beats. It would be a seconds hand. Woodward put numerals on the count wheel so he had an anti-clockwise rotating seconds face.

    Woodward had a small weight sticking out horizontally to the left from the top of the pendulum. The stalk was bi-mettalic. This was his temp compensation but his pendulum was plain steel. He only shows it in the photograph of the finished clock - no discussion about it in the text.

    Is invar expensive? Is it difficult to cut? Is it difficult to cut a screw thread on it?

    May you have fun, fascination and success with the project. Thanks for taking the trouble to write it up so well.
     
  11. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Hi Tok-Tokkie

    Thanks for the reply. Firstly, sorry, yes it was a mistake, I meant to say a seconds hand attached to the count wheel rotating backwards! Would certainly be interesting!

    I really would like to purchase MORT but it is just a little too expensive for me to afford right now.

    Regarding the Invar, I got it off ebay very cheap, £3 for 15" length, I purchased a couple, Using a sharp tool is was just fine to cut and a new dormer tap threaded it OK as well.

    Thanks for reading and I appreciate the reply! I`ve just spent a few hours cutting the count wheel and then half way through cutting the teeth made a mistake and ruined the lot! Now I feel very miserable and uninspired...!!
     
  12. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I hear what you say about the count wheel mistake. It happens. I remember seeing a post on the web where the slides & handwheels had masking tape applied so the poster would not overstep the limits. I have seen your extensive list of internet resources so you too probably saw it.

    Woodward made his count wheel out of Perspex (acrylic sheet). He reports that it shows no signs of wear after 20 years. Needs a little oil. I PMd Butterworth about nano oil as I think that would be a perfect application for it. I wondered if by using conventional oil first it would not decrease the efficacity of the nano by filling the molecular pores with oil so preventing the nano particles from getting in there. He did not answer that, probably because my question was not well phrased.

    Thanks for the invar data. I am going to use carbon fibre as it has even less expansion than invar. Your invar is half the length of a seconds pendulum. I am now thinking of using invar for the adjusting screw & nut at the bottom of my pendulum. Woodward did not use one. He pinned the bob low (slow) then tested the clock & determined exactly where the bob should be & fitted a pin there. He had a little tray 1/3 way down the pendulum for the final regulating weights. That is an even more elegant solution.

    Try to borrow MORT. I would lend you mine in due course but I am in Cape Town. It is very expensive for quite a small book.
     
  13. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    about 1X10^-7
    This would be 99.999988%.
    This is as good as many oven stablized quartz references.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  14. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Tok-tokkie - regarding the perspex count wheel, I believe he mentions that lubrication is an issue. Wilding explains that graphite could be used to lubricate it but suggests anyway that it is made from 16 gage CZ120 brass. You mentioned you had pm`d butterworth but I`m not sure who he is or his involvement with the gearless clock?

    I know this is exceptionally negative of me, but I`ll be so pleased to get it to run that at present keeping accurate time is a long way in my thoughts. I am sure once I have it running, I`ll become more fussy with regards to accuracy.

    I hope to attempt to cut the count wheel again tonight. My efforts a few nights ago failed miserably! I tried using a slitting saw to make a cut to depth at midpoint of the wheel. I went around the wheel on this cut and then lifted the cutter so that I cut from the top of one tooth to the bottom of the next, forming the ratchet form. Sadly, a stupid mistake caused this to fail. I think I might attempt to cut with a profile cutter tonight, I think the form may be neater.

    All the best
    Chris
     
  15. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    Mark Butterworth is a vendor whose advert appears at the top of the screen here. Nano oil contains minute molecules of carbon which are spherical. These spheres enter the interces between the molecules of the brass, perspex, whatever 7 form a wonderful slippery hard sutface. There are several threads about it in the Clock Repair board. This is the original & longest
    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=44809&highlight=nano
    Mark first posts at #44.
    [FONT=&quot]Post #90 is the mention of C-60 which took me to Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminsterfullerene[/FONT]
    Here is another thread about it:
    https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=62835

    My experience when I first got a lathe was that beer & it just do not mix. I made many mistakes after having a beer & sandwich half way through a Saturday job.
     
  16. Ed Buc

    Ed Buc Registered User

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    Keep going with the posts, many of us enjoy watching the clocks move from plates and rods to finished clocks!

    I agree the MORT book was pricy. I was looking very forward to getting it when I ordered it, and was a bit surprised when I opened the envelope and compared the book to the invoice:eek:.
     
  17. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I`ve spent a little while finishing this count wheel but managed it last night! The count wheel has these ratchet like teeth so that as the pendulum swings, the gathering pawl/wire slides up one of the slopes and drops behind a notch pulling the count wheel around one place.

    I started with two rough cut pieces of 18g CZ120:
    262.jpg
    Made an arbor and chucked them both up:
    263.jpg
    Turned them down to 1.5" diameter:
    264.jpg
    I then made my profiling tool to cut the teeth, a 60 deg cutting tool but I needed a flat parallel to the mill bed when mounted:
    265.jpg
    266.jpg
    267.jpg
    I then unscrewed the chuck and mounted it on my rotary table on the mill. It managed to get out of true when I did this in my previous efforts so I set up a DTI just to check it was running OK - which it was this time! I must have knocked it last time, but my arbor was also longer in my other efforts which may not have held as well. Also, it sounds stupid, but I think there was some vibration last time and the chuck wasn`t tight on the rotary table that is why it didn`t cut properly.
    268.jpg
    I then centred the wheel - made sure by making a whitness mark, moving to the other side and checking it was at the same height - you can just make this out on the photo
    269.jpg
    I started cutting the teeth!!
    270.jpg
    Wheel teeth cutting complete and worked just fine!! :ddb:
    271.jpg
     
  18. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I was then in two minds - remember I cut two teeth at once since it is 18g brass, the two together provided support for one another. I didn`t want to cross them out together as I risked spoiling them both if I failed. So I opted to remove one (as shown above) and remount the other on the chuck arbor and mount it under the rotary table. My dad then helped me with some nice maths so I could calculate how many degrees I needed to rotate the rotab and then lift the cutter for so many degrees and then back down etc to cross the wheel out
    272.jpg
    273.jpg
    274.jpg

    Then it was time to file it all square. I appreciate I could have got much more accuracy using the rotary table for all the crossing out but I decided to saw the little pieces out and file to size as described in the plans. This is the setup I`ve seen people use - a long wooden board, a groove cut and you sit on the board with the work nicely on platform infront of you ...worked very well
    275.jpg
    And after 20 minutes of rough filing I`ve got it coming to shape.
    276.jpg
    OK OK - it needs a lot more filing to make it look neat and quite a bit more work on burnishing the teeth but I`m nearly there.... :ddb:
     
  19. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I do all my work on cnc so there is no skill of craftsmanship in what I make. You are no doubt aware of the fabulous clock that Mark Frank is having made (seeing how you have listed so many internet sites). A distinguishing feature of Buchanan's work is the thin rim & spokes on every wheel he cuts. That count wheel is very 'heavy'. It is just a matter of aesthetics - I would have made it 'lighter' but it would still not have had the value of your largely hand made item. This is not a criticism - just an observation.
     
  20. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Hi Tok-Tokkie
    As I said, I am not a clock maker, I`m just following the plans as described by John Wilding. I could very well have made the crossing out and rims a little thinner but not much due to the deeper cut tooth as shown in the photo below. I do agree that it could perhaps do with being a little lighter but this is pretty much to Wildings plans. I have seen the clock that Mark Frank is having built and the wheels by Buchanan of Chelmsford are exceptionally narrowly crossed out - it is very impressive. I guess I can always take more off if the size of the wheel causes me problems.


    So here the latest efforts. I cut the deeper tooth and made the mounting arbour this evening. Tapping the 12BA was a little hairy and I just managed to get the distance right so that the screw heads didn`t foul the wheel mounting post Still needs more sanding and burnishing the top of the wheel but I think I`ll do that in a few evenings.

    278.jpg

    279.jpg

    I must admit, I`m pretty please with it!!
     
  21. And you should be! Things are looking right nice!

    Dean
     
  22. kimquyet1988

    kimquyet1988 New Member

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    great .....I dreams to that

    I am from VietNam
     
  23. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I started working on the clock again this week, didn`t get very far but here is an update on the bridge plate and pillars:
    Marked out the plate:
    74.jpg

    And roughed to shape with a file:
    75.jpg

    I then went a made a depth stop for my lathe as described by John in his "backstop" thread
    76.jpg

    77.jpg

    With the backstop, it was easy to get two the same length solving all previous issues when I`ve tried this!
    78.jpg

    I then drilled a tommy bar hole in the end to ensure we can tighten these onto the back plate:
    79.jpg

    The bottom end of the pillar is threaded M3 but I had concerns that I couldn`t thread it all the way using a die, I always end up with a stuck untreaded stub so consequently it won`t screw down to the shoulder. I normally just nick this with a parting tool but with only 1/8" of thread, I wanted as much thread as possible. So instead of threading, I drilled and tapped and using loctite, glued in two M3 screws, letting the glue dry and then cutting the thread to size:
    80.jpg

    As suggested in the plans, to profile the pillar I screwed it into a piece of scrap barstock threaded in the lathe and could then work on the entire length.
    81.jpg
    82.jpg

    And the two finished:
    83.jpg
     
  24. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    And the pillars and bridge mounted on the backplate:
    84.jpg
    85.jpg

    Next thing is to drill the pivot holes and so it is suggested I remove the pillars and drill through the bridge and packplate together to ensure they are aligned!
    86.jpg
     
  25. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Here is the wheel mounted on the clock:
    119.jpg

    I then started the count wheel arbor:
    120.jpg

    I didn`t get any photos of burnishing the pivots on the wheel, so here is my simple setup I used. This was actually on the count wheel pawl pivots
    121.jpg

    122.jpg

    Here is the count pawl and pivot
    123.jpg

    ...and then with the bracket, please bear in mind it all needs polishing. Notce that the side frames are also pinned to keep the pivot holes aligned.
    124.jpg

    ..... 125.jpg

    I did say some bad news, that being that my deep tooth is too deep and the angle of the tooth too steep so that the pawl gets stuck when it drops into it. I`m a bit dissapointed but things look like they are going to work OK !


    ...and a poor out of focus video but it works!! :p

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npvnapVxoX8
     
  26. Coming along nice, Chris.
    I just realized you are the same Craynard from MadModder. Gee, sometimes I'm thick!

    Dean
     
  27. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Hi Dean, yes I normally always use the same username on forums, craynerd, but I joined NAWCC as horology101 many many years ago before I even owned a lathe or any equipment!

    Thanks for the reply!

    Are you taking on any clock making projects at present?
     
  28. buksam

    buksam Registered User

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    Hi Chris and Dean,
    I can claim to be even thicker Dean--I have been working with Chris and have talked about clocks on several occasions and only this week has it dawned on me that he is the guy building the Woodward clock. I feel like a real bonehead.

    Nice piece of work Chris-- shame about the slot being too big--we all make mistakes as I did building my wooden clock which is taking for ever.Looking forward to your next posts!:rolleyes:
     
  29. Nothing new at the moment. The one I started a few years ago has been sitting on the shelf ticking away for a couple of years,
    still waiting for hands! I just have so much machine work and clock jobs stacked up that I can't seem to get the last bit
    on it finished. It's nice to be busy, but all these paying jobs cut into my fun time! Gee, I don't know how I got anything done
    before I retired...
     
  30. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Buksam - at least now you know it is me you can keep in contact! Thanks for posting.

    Dean, it is great that you have one you built ticking away! I sure hope mine "ticks" !!

    Went on to make the pin wheel over the last couple of nights. Still not finished but getting there, just needs pinning
    164.jpg

    165.jpg

    166.jpg

    Before drilling, I needed to check the drill size was ok for pinning all 60 x 1/32" pins without the need for glue. I used a 0.75mm drill in a piece of test material and it worked really well. I used the drill as a press

    167.jpg

    168.jpg

    Then setup the wheel on the CNC rotab and drilled the holes

    169.jpg

    170.jpg

    Took a bit of a risk as I feel I can make a better job of the crossing out on the mill rather than by hand fully. However, the arbour wasn`t strong enough so risked moving it to another bigger chuck. I managed to centre it and of course checked it before I started any cutting but it worked out well.

    171.jpg

    Now all the front face and crossing out needs fully cleaning up. Problem is that when it is pinned you can`t really get at it all so the wheel needs totally finishing before being pinned.

    172.jpg
     
  31. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Finally after hours of trialing various methods I managed to get a method to cut the pins down to about 20 seconds a pin. Previous attempts with a dremel and such, took forever and didn`t produce suitable pins!
    So I knocked up this little punch. Both parts are silver steel and hardened. The small bit is obviously the punch and the large part has a matching hole of dia 0.22" (iirc) which is the length of the pin required. The large section is also cross drilled 0.8mm
    181.jpg

    Just got given a set of letter stamps so thoughts I`d try and use some for the first time putting my initials on the new tool :D
    182.jpg

    I milled two flats on the bottom of the large section so it can be held in the vice. Setup like shown below with the red box to collect the pins:
    183.jpg

    184.jpg

    To pin the wheel I took a small piece of steel bar, drilled 0.8mm ensuring that with the pin pushed in fully, a small length was sticking out to push all the way through the brass of the wheel. I put a few tiny magnets on the pin holding guide to hold the pin in place which was just coping how "Gadget Builder" did when he built this clock.
    185.jpg

    Complete pinned wheel !!
    186.jpg

    Next to make the arbour and supporting frames and get it mounted on the clock. Then back to remake the count wheel :ddb:
     
  32. A neatly done job there, Chris. It looks good!
     
  33. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Thanks Dead. It looks OK but I have to admit, the finishing of my wheel is poor. I have been told it is just time and patience but I find as I keep going with the file, there is a point where it starts looking worse!

    I need more crossing out practice for sure.

    Chris
     
  34. Dead? ;)

    For the finish on your crossing out job, after you have it filed to shape using a very fine file, the next step is to paper it.
    Wrap a piece of wet-and-dry sandpaper around your small file, and use that going long ways on the spokes and the large radius
    on the inside of your wheel. Start with the smallest grit on your paper that will still get rid of your file marks, then go to
    progressively finer grit to put on a finish shine. I use the sandpaper dry, and clean the brass out of the paper when it
    starts to load up.
    Also, when you are filing without the paper, go long ways (drawfile), same as for papering.

    It does take some practice. You'll get good at it after a bit.

    Dean
     
  35. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Excellent information Dead :D, Dean. ^^ sorry about that new nick name!

    I must admit, I`ve only just read the reply so I am posting some more below but I will go back to the wheel tomorrow and have a go as you suggested!
    --------------------

    I made the pin wheel arbour and collet tonight which also doubles up as the drive pully. There are a few issues with this related to the type of line I ultimately use. Basically, the drive wheel obtains it rotation from the falling weight, simply by the friction of the line pulling over the pully. As you can imagine, this is tricky as if the angle is too sharp in the V groove of the drive pully, the line can bind and if too narrow, the line will slip. I chose to follow more advice by John (Gadget Builder) who has suggested to me I try 45 deg as Dr Woodward did and use monofillament line. I can always open up this angle and try builders line if I want to, but couldn`t go the other way unless I remade the pully.

    Set about cutting a 45deg V form tool and cutting the pully V:
    190.jpg

    191.jpg

    192.jpg

    Collet and arbour complete:
    193.jpg

    And complete wheel on arbour with a bearing with 1/8" ID stuck on the end just to check they fit
    194.jpg

    Plates next and then get the wheel mounted.
    Chris
     
  36. tok-tokkie

    tok-tokkie Registered User

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    I wondered how the drive pulley would be made so I was very pleased to see the picture of the tool.

    Woodward used 0.2mm diameter nylon monofilament fishing line. I expected the pulley to be made in two halves with 22.5° taper each side (his included angle was 45°) with a very sharp apex to the groove so that the thread could not bottom out. I had thought such a sharp tool tip would chip off.

    I have some 0.2mm diam Dynema fishing line. It is rated 4.5kg. Dynema is UHMWPE (ultra high molecular weight poly ethylene) which is next tp PTFE in slipperyness so that could discount it for your application. It is very expensive but I can post you a few meters if it interests you. To make a knot I tie one then wet it with cyanoacrylate (superglue).
    http://www.berkley-fishing.com/products/line/superline/fireline-fused-crystal
     
  37. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Hi Tok-tokie! I`d certainly be interested if you would be willing to send me some line, unless postage costs are too high?

    The V tool was cut down from a grooving tool I had already made for a pully some time ago. From everything I have read, I do believe that the line is one of the hardest parts to sort out. I know that both Gadget builder and Wilding suggest that builders line - braided nylon line, can be used. This is much much thicker than the monofilament suggested at the start of Wildings notes but apparently has more friction and doesn`t "snag" in the groove.

    Let me know about your fishing line!

    Chris
     
  38. Chris, quite a few years back I made a new winding barrel for a weight driven clock. That barrel used a spiral groove
    about 2" diameter, similar to a large thread for a screw. So the winding line did not catch on tooling marks as the weight
    line unwound, I used a piece of hardwood cut to the same profile as the grooves in the barrel, loaded the piece of wood
    with fine grinding compound and polished the grooves. No sticking.

    I'm not sure what you need in the way of friction at the point of your small pulley here, so what I described may or may
    not be applicable here.
     
  39. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Dean, your suggestion is certainly food for thought should I struggle with this and need alternatives. I will certainly keep it in mind.

    On a side note, I`ve not done anything on the clock the last few nights. My copy of George Daniels- Watchmaking arrived and I`ve been blown away reading it in all my spare time... what an amazing book! I just need Woodwards MORT now but I just can`t afford that yet. I tried an inter-library search across UK but apparently after 2 weeks they have come back to me having not found it!

    Chris
     
  40. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I`ve been on holiday for a few weeks and I`ve been totally reworking my workshop. I`ve actually not finished, I`m currently in the middle of building a high clockmakers workbench which is why progress on the clock has been very slow. I just had a few hours on it this evening but sadly back onto tidying the workshop tomorrow...!
    Anyway, update:

    Both wheels mounted.
    21.jpg
     
  41. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Well I finally finished my workshop tidy up and made my little watchmakers bench. Isn`t much but does the job for me and is very sturdy. I`ve never had a desk in my workshop so it good having somewhere to sit and think and put my legs under of suitable height.

    90.jpg

    ...and with the workshop now back together again, I continued for a few hours with the clock. I decided to make the impulse pawl and then all pendulum parts are complete.

    91.jpg

    92.jpg

    93.jpg

    And mounted on the pendulum...

    94.jpg
     
  42. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I spent a few hours this morning when everyone was in bed completing the "gated detent". This is a critical part, it allows a single pin on the pin wheel to slide through the gate but catches and holds the next pin until the next impulse.

    The paddles were made from 0.02" steel shim but I couldn`t find anything suitable, so I butchered one of my very cheap shim gauges. The price of the gauge was no more than I would have been willing to pay for a suitable piece of stock. It was a pain because it was hardened or stainless? I could only cut it with a dremel grinding disk which worked quite well.

    98.jpg

    99.jpg

    100.jpg

    101.jpg

    When an impulse occurs, the paddle tips down and a pin slides along the top of the top blade and falls throught the gate where it catches on the lip sticking out on the bottom (the bottom paddle). As the deten tips, it tips off the pin from the bottom paddle/detent which then accepts and catches the new pin.
    It was very small, the bottom paddle sticks out only 1/32" but can be adjusted by the bottom screw.

    Next onto the mountain brackets. Then I still want to go back and make my count wheel again
     
  43. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Gated Detent mounted and functioning correctly! It allows a pin to slip through the gate and immediately catches it on the bottom lip until the force is removed from the pin wheel or the pin wheel is rotated a little in reverse by the pendulum:

    Here is the adjustable bracket that holds the gated detent in position:

    148.jpg

    ..and mounted;
    149.jpg

    150.jpg

    Now I`ve moved onto the deflector piece:
    Roughed out:
    151.jpg

    and then filed to shape with pawls attached:
    152.jpg

    153.jpg

    Hopefully get that mounted in the next few days...
    Chris
     
  44. Your parts are looking very good, Chris. With every new piece, you get better and better at it!
    I hope you will be able to show us a video of the clock when you have it finished. I think I will need
    to see it run to figure it out. :)
     
  45. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Dean, thanks for your kind comments. I have every intention of posting some videos. In fact, once the new parts are mounted, I just need to make the pulley system for the weight and I'll be able to test the motion works to shown minutes, without the daisy motion for the hours. It should also be clearer how the mechanism works without maintaining works, dial or daisy motion attached. Thanks for the interest you are showing, Dean.
     
  46. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I`ve not posted an update for a few days and the truth is, I`d made all the parts required to test the mechanism and I must have spent near 10 hours just tweeking the setup to get it to run. Finally, just as I was giving up again for the evening, I had a brain wave, made some changes and off it went!!

    I`ve many corrections to make to the working mechanism and you will spot a huge error in the working of the backstop - notice when the backstop engages the large tooth,it jumps/catches the count wheel. I think this is just the position of the backstop pawl but I wanted to leave it and let it have some time running. It didn`t effect the physical mechanism but it will cause errors in the time keeping, so it will need correcting. I have a much much better idea now of how this all fits together so I`m now very confident I can get it working more smoothly!

    Here goes, I just did my best to video it in bad light at this time of night.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v87pwQs4rA

    Some more pictures for you of bits I`ve taken as I did a quick polish ready for this test assembly.

    Back plate.
    234.jpg

    All the bits ready for a quick polish. This isn`t a final polish, I just needed everything clean to get it to run.
    235.jpg

    Count wheel
    236.jpg

    Back stop
    237.jpg

    238.jpg

    I made another count wheel with shallower teeth a few days ago but managed to get the original one working so didn`t bother using it yet. I might try this one as I expect that the back stop is jumping because the tooth is overly deep on my initial wheel I`m using.
    239.jpg

    Pin wheel and deflector piece:
    240.jpg

    same as above, with the gated detent:
    241.jpg

    Well I can now go to bed much more positive than I have been doing for the last few weeks! I`ll post a little more detail of the mechanism and an explanation of the video tomorrow.
    Good night
     
  47. Thanks for the vid and the new pics, Chris. It is kind of a fun movement to observe running, and reminiscent of a grasshopper
    motion with the movement of the wires in the count and pin wheels.
    I like the sound, too. :thumb:

    Dean
     
  48. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    Thanks Dean! I`ve got a bit of work to stop the backstop bouncing but I hope it can be ironed out.

    I`ve posted a little explanation to the best of my understanding, relating to the video and pictures.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v87pwQs4rA


    1. The pendulum swings 40 periods each minute, gathering a tooth on the 40 tooth count wheel. The count wheel therefore rotates once every minute and so the seconds hand could be placed on this wheel but it would turn in reverse. Consequently, Wilding didn`t have any seconds indication but Woodward placed numbers on his count wheel to approximate the seconds.

    2. The count wheel has a single deeper tooth than the rest. When the count wheel pawl (the top wire on the pendulum) drops into this deep tooth, it engages the vertical wire on the deflector piece. At 56 seconds in the video, you can see the count wheel pawl going over the top of the deflector and imagine how it interacts when it hits the deep tooth.

    3. The deflector therefore tips anticlockwise and this causes the diagonal piece of the deflector piece to obviously tip down as well. You can see the deflector mounted on the backplate above (the other bit you can see at the bottom of the deflector is a stop to stop it tipping all the way back at rest).

    4. This bottom piece of the deflector bears down on the lower wire from
    the pendulum (the impulse pawl) which engages a tooth on the pin wheel.

    5. You can`t see this on the video but there is a small weight (a large allan key!) hooked directly onto a tooth (at about 3 oclock position) on the pin wheel. The tooth on the pin wheel is engaged with the bottom lip of the deflector piece. When the impulse pawl pulls the pin wheel back by a fraction, this releases the pin from the detent and the weight on the pin wheel, which in future will be a proper weight and chord, pulls the pendulum back to the right and gives it the impulse!

    6. There are 60 pins on the pin wheel and so this happens once an hour giving you the arbor for the minute hand. A fancy "daisy motion works" will then need building to gearlessly reduce down this motion to 1 turn per 12 revolution of the minute hand/pin wheel arbour.
    Hope that in some way explains how it runs!
     
  49. Raynerd

    Raynerd Registered User

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    I got the weight pulley system together which took a lot longer than I expected! These little things were tricky to make!

    They each run on a tiny bearing;
    304.jpg

    Because they are only about 3mm wide, I found it really tricky to have a blind hole to a press fit. It was too tight and I ended up killing the little bearing trying to press it into the housing, or it slipped into place. Consequently I had to loctite the bearing into the housing:
    305.jpg

    Then I made some small shaft for them to sit on:
    306.jpg
    -> posts merged by system <-
    I made a very rough pulley based on Wildings plans. I will need to shape and finish this to make it look more elegant, but it will transfer to the master weight when I`m happy with everything. For now, it is mounted on the lid of an empty coffee jar allowing me to fill it with scrap steel to adjust the weight.

    307.jpg

    Woodward suggested 1400g master weight with the jockey weight being 60% of this when used with nylon monofilament line to stop slippage.

    Tok-tokkie kindly sent me a length of expensive Dynema fishing line but despite my best efforts, this just wouldn`t get any grip and the line slipped with any movement!

    Wilding made an amendment in the back of the book and suggested the use of builders line. He used only a 700g master weight and although he explained Woodwards ideas, he admittedly used a far smaller jockey weight than the 60% suggestion. I was using about 850-900g in my master weight and about 200g in my jockey weight, the line wasn`t slipping but the impulse wasn`t big enough and after 20 minutes the clock was stopping. Wilding did mention you could use a smaller jockey "if you could get away with it" and because the braided builders line has much more "grip" than any monofilament fishing line, I experimented to see what the minimum I could use was. Using too small a jockey mass and the line would slip and the master weight would slowly fall, however using a small M10 bolt (just to experiment with!) and adding nuts as extras weights, I got to about 50g for the jockey weight as a stable minimum weight.
    This made all the difference and my problems with impulse had gone! The clock was running... but that lead to another problem...!!!

    With the bigger impulse, the backstop pawl started jumping again! This is something John (gadget builder) and I have been discussing for a while but no amount of bending of the wire could stop it. The position Wilding suggestions will clearly work but even if you don`t get the jumping I was experiencing, this low position of the backstop is not ideal. Really the backstop should be acting in a more horizontal position like the count pawl is acting in on the pendulum rod. This will allow it to easily lift and drop off each tooth, especially the deeper one I was having problems with.
    One option I had would be to take a bracket off the right bridge pillar and mount the backstop on there! So that it was free to move I used a small bearings. To reduce friction even more, I intentionally increased the length of the backstop wire and hooked the back end so that I could add small washers as weights to counter-balance the backstop. This made a MASSIVE difference, both the position and the counter balance. The position stopped it from jumping all together and by adding the small weights, you could tell friction was reduced because the back stop became silent in action! 2.gif

    Now, I made this as a quick job and haven`t shaped it or polished it and clearly I`m not going to use washers to counterbalance the system on the final thing!!! I just stuck it on to see if it would work, but once I`ve made this look OK it will be installed. The bracket needs rounding at both ends and making much narrower:

    308.jpg

    It has been running since 10am this morning which is about 10 hours 30 mins of running time. Fingers crossed it is still going tomorrow morning!!

    309.jpg
     

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