Bruce is buying a fantastic Sawin Gallery, and I come home with another ogee?

[Jim DuBois]

I guess the header tells the story, at least the high-level story. Congratulations to Bruce in any event.

So, as I have claimed more than once I have owned a lot of ogees. I might want to change my screen name to Mr. Ogee? But, maybe not.

So, what is unusual about this one? Well, for a start, it is a very well-made German knockoff of a Jerome ogee as made here. Evidently, Mr. Jerome was taking major hunks out of the German clockmaking trade at the same time he was abusing the British trade in a big way? It looks like this clock was intended to compete. That said, it has characteristics that suggest it was 2-3 times as expensive to produce as Jeromes products. Why? Thick expensive veneers in a pretty much handmade case, very well done, but not off an assembly line in my thinking. The movement has cast brass plates, all handworked and hand-finished. The wheels all appear to be cast brass also, hand-finished in turns or on a lathe after teeth were cut and wheels were mounted. The verge is a well-machined piece of steel where the American versions have the much more simple strip verge. Somebody misjudged the weight drop so we have holes in the bottom of the case. The dial is on convex formed tin and has original paint we think. The tablet in the lower door is original and also painted on tin.

But, an interesting piece I think. No label, but it has wallpaper covering the entire backboard. Looks very nice, it could be a fooler to people not being completely careful. I like it! Now about those gallery clocks!

 

[Ralph]

Maybe you're channeling Larry.

Ralph

 

[senhalls]

Oh...........Gee ! You have a beautiful clock there . The Germans certainly outdid Jerome and themselves . Have you seen many German ogees ? Congratulations to you ! Sorry about the holes in the bottom board . It looks like they got the weights hot enough and pushed them right on through . Did it come with a shelf with matching holes ?

 

[Chris Radano]

I have quite a few Black Forest clocks in my collection that correspond with the dating on your ogee. Most of mine were made for and used in the UK (as I would suspect yours was, too).
You have described some aspects of the casemaking that makes your clock recognizable as Black Forest manufacture. Some very skilled craftsman.
The verge was not always used, many earlier BF small factory made brass movements used the strip verge, only their version of the strip is thick in comparison to USA clocks. So 19th c. BF movements have a very loud (but pleasing and perhaps quaint) tick.
Does your case have a wall hanger? I would think the holes in the bottom were made by an owner who simply wanted a longer run time.

I have a few BF clocks for the English market, "bracket clocks" if you will. These are solid brass plated movements.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/good-earlier-black-forest-mantel-clock.90442/

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/black-forest-bracket-clock-id.40571/

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/jakob-kleiser-in-schollach-for-the-english-market.113725/

 

[Jim DuBois]

Chris, thanks for the thoughts on this clock. Yes, I would think the holes in the bottom to be "aftermarket." And yes, the clock does have a wall hanger on it. The patina on the holes in the base suggests them to have been there for a very long time. Same patina on the surface of the holes as the rest of the base. But roughly enough done as to suggest their not being factory done.

And here is a more upscale 8-day version of a European ogee. Better veneers, but same style dial, verge form, wallpapered case, same lower tablet on tin rather than glass. Certainly, some traits we find on some Penn clocks of about the same period, at least the tin-painted tablet. This particular clock we have beat about here previously, but I figured having the two versions together made a degree of sense? And the 30 hr version was purchased in Germany quite recently and shipped back here.

And no, the 8-day is not a Jerome, someone who saved the photos thought it was and I did not rename them.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

This thread seems to tie in well with this earlier one.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/unusual-thick-veneered-reverse-ogee-clock.163062/

 

[Jim DuBois]

Thanks Steven, I was too lazy to chase it down. I find these to be quite interesting, as I guess we could note from the prior thread and this one also. Not a cost-competitive product as Jerome was selling his version for something like $1.20 each by the boatload?

 

[JTD]

Further to what I posted in the thread that Steven has linked, I can see that I was wrong in suggestion that Sayer was 'just' the village clockmaker in Saig.

Johann-Baptist Sayer was more than just a village clockmaker, he had a small firm which was well-thought of and which produced some clocks that won praise in exhibition/competitions. One of the first small factories to produce Amerikanerwerke.

The firm was started in 1845 but disappeared from record around 1875.

JTD

 

[Jim DuBois]

the tablets painted on tin seem to survive much better than those painted here, stateside, on glass. But, we also find them on Penn made clocks, those of Germanic influence. Here are some examples all on Penn clocks.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

the tablets painted on tin seem to survive much better than those painted here, stateside, on glass. But, we also find them on Penn made clocks, those of Germanic influence. Here are some examples all on Penn clocks.

View attachment 666007 View attachment 666008 View attachment 666009

Yes. Stateside, mostly find decorated tin panels in PA clocks.

Just to be the contrarian, for a change , will point out Jerome used a smaller & generally more sedately decorated tole panel in the lower most section of the doors of some of of his flat pilaster & splat clocks.

Examples can be found on the Forums.

RM

 

[Sooth]

Great find, Jim. The condition is excellent.

 

[brian fisher]

Yes. Stateside, mostly find decorated tin panels in PA clocks.

Just to be the contrarian, for a change , will point out Jerome used a smaller & generally more sedately decorated tole panel in the lower most section of the doors of some of of his flat pilaster & splat clocks.

Examples can be found on the Forums.

RM

coincidentally(or not), there are a lot germans that settled in PA.

Nice little clock jim.