Broken stem on Omega Geneve Dynamic

[losingmyedge]

Hello everyone. First post, so apologies if I stray from the style guide.

I've had an Omega Geneve Dynamic for a few years after being given it for my 21st birthday (it remains my all time favourite watch), but recently the stem fell out. I've attached a picture of the stem for reference. I'd like to know if this is anywhere near repairable on my own, or if it's something that's going to have to be sent to Omega for repair? I don't exactly have the £480 to send it for repair.

Thanks in advance!

 

[gmorse]

Hi losingmyedge, and welcome to the forum,

The stem on these is a split type and snaps on and off, because the back of the case isn't removable; the movement comes out through the front after the crystal is removed. However, removing it shouldn't be necessary.

The forked end of the stem fits a corresponding part inside the movement, and to put it back, (providing neither part of the snap fitting is damaged), you need to insert it and then turn it until you feel that the two parts are aligned, then press it firmly home.

Regards,

Graham

 

[losingmyedge]

Hi Graham, thanks for taking the time to respond. As you can see in the first picture, the crown sits completely flush inside the case, and rotates freely once there. If I try to insert it at an angle I can feel it hold up, but rotating it never yield a click.

 

[doug sinclair]

Welcome,

How is it that you arrived at that number for the repair of your Omega? Have you checked out several shops to get other opinions on what the watch needs? Your watch might be 45 to 50 years old! No doubt, it really does need more than just the stem replaced! A lot of damage and wear can take place over that period of time. And, NO! You definitely CANNOT do this repair yourself! Don't even think about it! You could convert a good quality, collectible watch into a paper weight!

Worst case scenario. We know about the stem, and the crown really should be replaced at the same time. On these Omegas, the rotor bearing gear wears out over time. As does the upper and lower mainspring arbor bearing, and the arbor bearings in the mainspring barrel. These should all be replaced if sufficiently worn. The mainspring should be replaced at the same time. If you have problems with the reverser gear in the automatic winding, these must be replaced, and they are very expensive! If the crystal is original, the acrylic hardens and cracks, as well as scratches. Even if it is not cracked, they very frequently break when removed prior to the repair. Along with all this, the watch should be given a thorough service. All, or nothing! I don't see that you have a choice! But you should check around for another opinion. The Omega company that made your watch no longer exists. Parts for older Omegas will not be available forever! DO NOT take it to the watch repair kiosk in your local big box shop in the local mall. You need to talk face to face with the veteran repair guy who knows these watches, and can do the work. The future of your Omega is at stake! Let us know what you decide to do, and let us know the result.

 

[losingmyedge]

Hi Doug, thanks.

That's the amount that Omega quote for a full service at their HQ in Geneva for a watch of this vintage. As for other repairs, it had a service a couple of years ago courtesy of Omega, so I'd hope it was generally in pretty good shape. I've spoken with a few watch repair specialists and they've all pointed me in the direction of Omega's official servicing department, given the rarity of the pieces required.

I appreciate your advice though, I'm resigned to the notion that it's going to have to go to Omega, but I thought I'd see if anything could be done on my end. Thanks.

 

[gmorse]

Hi losingmyedge,

Doug is absolutely right of course! However, this may not be an automatic movement, as I think some were manual wind, so rather simpler, with fewer parts to wear.

Regards,

Graham

 

[losingmyedge]

This is a manual wind model, I should have mentioned that.

 

[doug sinclair]

In just took my first look at your thumbnails in full size. Graham mentioned the split stem, and indeed, your watch has the split stem. He mentioned how you might re-attach the stem and crown in his first post. Consider are-reading that post and following his instructions. They may just work. It would appear on the surface that nothing is broken!

 

[dAz57]

The movement has rotated inside the case, so the stem will not line up to snap back together.

I actually have one of those I should restore it and use it

 

[doug sinclair]

dAz57 has nailed it! The movement has indeed turned. So a quick fix is clearly now a somewhat less than quick fix!

 

[Al J]

There are a couple of things that need to be looked at. The split stem needs to be checked to make sure that the female end has not sprung open, causing the connection to be looser that it should be. The male end in the movement also needs to be checked for wear for the same reason. If any faults are found both should be replaced as a set.

As noted the movement has rotated in the case, and that should not happen easily really, so the case clamps need to be checked to ensure they are of the right style. But the most common problem I find on this case style is that the wedge is missing. Here is a photo of the inside of the case:



The red arrow points to a recess in the case where a plastic wedge fits in, so the movement is dropped in with the stem at 2 o'clock or so, and then the movement is rotated clockwise to locate it in the case. This wedge helps keep the movement from moving around once everything is in place. Here is a photo of the same watch as I'm disassembling it, and you can see the wedge still on the movement - it's covered in black melted crown gasket goop:



New wedges are available from Omega - the new ones all appear to be blue in colour, at least the ones I have in the shop are.

In terms of who can do the repairs, these are not complicated to work on by any means, but having access to parts is important. If you can find an independent watchmaker who has an Omega parts account that is certainly an option that might be less expensive than sending it back to Omega.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Al

 

[novicetimekeeper]

If the wedge is now missing does that mean Omega lost it when they serviced it or is it loose inside?

Is it worth talking to Omega? Sounds like a premature failure after a recent service.

 

[losingmyedge]

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to respond to me, it's appreciated. I've got a grip of what's gone wrong with the watch now, so I'm going to see go talk to a repair specialist about getting it fixed.

 

[Notpiks]

Hi losingmyedge, and welcome to the forum,

The stem on these is a split type and snaps on and off, because the back of the case isn't removable; the movement comes out through the front after the crystal is removed. However, removing it shouldn't be necessary.

The forked end of the stem fits a corresponding part inside the movement, and to put it back, (providing neither part of the snap fitting is damaged), you need to insert it and then turn it until you feel that the two parts are aligned, then press it firmly home.

Regards,

Graham

Is there some trick for getting the crown and outer stem to lock back on? When the movement is installed back in the case should the stem be pulled out to the date set position or is there a risk of snapping the inner stem when the movement is rotated.

 

[MrRoundel]

IIRC, the male part of the two-piece stem that stays with the movement would protrude enough into the case tube to minimize the chance that the movement would spin out of range. I.E., the stem will bottom out on either side of the case tube.

I usually use good light and some magnification to see the orientation of the slot in the stem. I then attempt to fit the crown assembly so it fits in the slot. You may have to move it slightly before it gets into a position to snap on. Decent force, not gargantuan. It's a matter of feel that comes with watch-work.

As far as setting versus winding position, I think that might get you better visibility of the postion of the inner stem, but not a lot more. After all, with the force you have to use to snap the upper stem on will quickly get you in winding position anyway, before the assembly snaps on. Good luck.

 

[Notpiks]

IIRC, the male part of the two-piece stem that stays with the movement would protrude enough into the case tube to minimize the chance that the movement would spin out of range. I.E., the stem will bottom out on either side of the case tube.

I usually use good light and some magnification to see the orientation of the slot in the stem. I then attempt to fit the crown assembly so it fits in the slot. You may have to move it slightly before it gets into a position to snap on. Decent force, not gargantuan. It's a matter of feel that comes with watch-work.

As far as setting versus winding position, I think that might get you better visibility of the postion of the inner stem, but not a lot more. After all, with the force you have to use to snap the upper stem on will quickly get you in winding position anyway, before the assembly snaps on. Good luck.

Great to hear from someone with experience. I have managed to line up the inner male stem with the tube and can see the orientation of the inner stem, I have managed to fit the crown & the outer split stem well enough to wind but I can not push the crown in far enough to get the two parts of the stem to lock. Something is too short or out of position. I thought the outer female part of the stem might be screwed in to the crown and if I could loosen that it would give me a little more reach. However I can not unscrew it perhaps it is all in one or glued together with Loctite.

 

[roughbarked]

Great to hear from someone with experience. I have managed to line up the inner male stem with the tube and can see the orientation of the inner stem, I have managed to fit the crown & the outer split stem well enough to wind but I can not push the crown in far enough to get the two parts of the stem to lock. Something is too short or out of position. I thought the outer female part of the stem might be screwed in to the crown and if I could loosen that it would give me a little more reach. However I can not unscrew it perhaps it is all in one or glued together with Loctite.

Have you changed anything? Is one piece or both new parts you are fitting or are they the same parts that were in the watch beforehand?
When you say you can wind the watch, is there still some room to push the outer stem/crown further in?

 

[Notpiks]

Have you changed anything? Is one piece or both new parts you are fitting or are they the same parts that were in the watch beforehand?
When you say you can wind the watch, is there still some room to push the outer stem/crown further in?

No, the two parts fail to lock together and the crown is up to the case. As far as I know the parts are original. The glass fell out once and had to be replaced. I have to admit that while trying to test the junction outside the case the male stem has "pinged" away and I have ordered a new one. I notice the crown does not have an Omega logo. I wonder if it ever had one? Should the female stem unscrew form the crown? The reason for attempting the repair myself was because I sent it to a qualified Omega specialist he declined the repair saying opening it would destroy the dial. Actually opening the case to remove the movement was not difficult. So I am back to where I started.. Thanks

 

[roughbarked]

So, you did replace the male part?
The correct crown should have had the Omega symbol.
The stem should unscrew from the crown and if it is an incorrect crown this would even be more likely. It would possibly also be likely that the crown was fitted with locktite. A pin vice is required to hold the stem and if necessary, a pair of end nippers to hold the crown with.
Basically though if the stem is too short, you are going to need to buy a new female outer. There definitely is a limit on how much you can pack the crown thread. Thread extensions can be purchased if you wish but these have to fit the inside of the pipe.

 

[Al J]

IIRC, the male part of the two-piece stem that stays with the movement would protrude enough into the case tube to minimize the chance that the movement would spin out of range. I.E., the stem will bottom out on either side of the case tube.

That's not exactly how these work. In fact the entire movement has to be rotated so that the stem is well outside the confines of the case tube in order to align the movement clamps so that the movement can be put in or taken out of the case.

Here is the movement lined up as it is in use:



And now rotated to allow the movement to drop out:



The clamps don't "clamp" and just loosely retain the movement. The wedge I spoke of in an earlier post, plus the crystal, are all that keep the movement from rotating when the watch is fully assembled. If the movement can rotate even a little, the split stem can come undone without being pulled apart.

The reason for attempting the repair myself was because I sent it to a qualified Omega specialist he declined the repair saying opening it would destroy the dial. Actually opening the case to remove the movement was not difficult. So I am back to where I started.. Thanks

Not much of an Omega specialist I would say...but I hear from many customers that some watchmakers won't take in front loading watches for some reason.

The crown should have a logo - if you let me know the case number I can can give you the proper crown number, but most likely it's a
069ST42528 (if the case is stainless and this has the 500 series, 600 series, or 750 series movements inside, rather than the later 1010 series based Dynamics). The female split stem you need is part #081ST9992. If you don't have the plastic wedge, the part number for that is
0920001BL.

Cheers, Al

 

[Notpiks]

The new male inner stem I ordered has not arrived yet.

That's not exactly how these work. In fact the entire movement has to be rotated so that the stem is well outside the confines of the case tube in order to align the movement clamps so that the movement can be put in or taken out of the case.

Here is the movement lined up as it is in use:

View attachment 640742

And now rotated to allow the movement to drop out:

View attachment 640743

The clamps don't "clamp" and just loosely retain the movement. The wedge I spoke of in an earlier post, plus the crystal, are all that keep the movement from rotating when the watch is fully assembled. If the movement can rotate even a little, the split stem can come undone without being pulled apart.



Not much of an Omega specialist I would say...but I hear from many customers that some watchmakers won't take in front loading watches for some reason.

The crown should have a logo - if you let me know the case number I can can give you the proper crown number, but most likely it's a
069ST42528 (if the case is stainless and this has the 500 series, 600 series, or 750 series movements inside, rather than the later 1010 series based Dynamics). The female split stem you need is part #081ST9992. If you don't have the plastic wedge, the part number for that is
0920001BL.

Cheers, Al

The numbers inside the steel case are :135.033, 136.033, 165.039, 166.039 The Calibre is 565 No: 27553509
Although I bought the watch new in 1970, I notice two service marks in the case. Someone I don't remember must have changed the crown & fitted too short a female stem, The circumference of the generic crown is 4.65 & 2.16 deep. The length of the tube in the case 4.84. The female stem 1.07 mm as best as I can measure. I have managed to unscrew the old female stem from the generic crown & fitted the new male stem. Thanks for your help Chris

 

[Al J]

The new male inner stem I ordered has not arrived yet.

The numbers inside the steel case are :135.033, 136.033, 165.039, 166.039 The Calibre is 565 No: 27553509
Although I bought the watch new in 1970, I notice two service marks in the case. Someone I don't remember must have changed the crown & fitted too short a female stem, The circumference of the generic crown is 4.65 & 2.16 deep. The length of the tube in the case 4.84. The female stem 1.07 mm as best as I can measure. I have managed to unscrew the old female stem from the generic crown & fitted the new male stem. Thanks for your help Chris

Yes, then if the case is stainless steel, 069ST42528 is the correct replacement crown.

Cheers, Al

 

[Notpiks]

Yes, then if the case is stainless steel, 069ST42528 is the correct replacement crown.

Cheers, Al

Thanks for your help. I have a new inner stem from Spain a new outer female stem & crown from Poland. Now all well!

 

[Al J]

Great - glad you have it sorted.