Broken Setting Arbor

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by John Rausch, Jul 25, 2019.

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  1. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    I am looking at a miniature Waterbury time-only movement with a balance wheel escapement. The oil/grease on this was so congealed that nothing turned, which probably accounts for the setting arbor being broken off. So now I am exploring how to repair this. I've included a couple photos of the wheel itself, plus a couple with just it in the plates. Suggestions?

    DSC02121.JPG DSC02123.JPG DSC02128.JPG DSC02129.JPG
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Jun 24, 2008
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    John, can you drill it, insert a pin, and drill and add on an extension for the setting knob?
     
  3. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    Drilled out and replaced
     
  4. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    Nov 29, 2007
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    Agree with the others above. Drill to the size that was broken off, get a replacement rod to the same diameter as the broken arbor and figure out the length you need. Then Locktite it in, should be good to go. BTW, drill the arbor to hold center.
    Good Luck!
     
  5. bkerr

    bkerr Registered User
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    OOPS drill on the lather to hold center.
     
  6. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Do you think Loctite would handle the torque force? If so, what type of Loctite?
     
  7. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    If you drill it properly you won't need Loctite of any kind
     
  8. wow

    wow Registered User
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    In this case, I would tint the insert and holes with silver-bearing solder, heat it all and put together. The solder will polish off and it will look fine and be stronger
     
  9. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
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    Red LocTite will likely do fine, and I also use Loctite 660 retaining compound, which is for when threads aren't involved. Both hold very well and can be released if you heat the parts enough. The store- brand red and blue thread lockers from Harbor Freight Tools have proven very reliable.

    M Kinsler
     
  10. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Thank you all. About to leave for an (unscheduled) trip but I will return to this thread after I return and attempt a fix.
     
  11. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    OK, back from a pair of back-to-back trips out of town. So the plan of action I'm trying is to drill a hole in the end of the broken arbor and insert an extension that will pass thru the rear plate of the movement. I chose a piece of pivot steel and have been trying to figure out how to put a removable knurled knob on the end of it. I have a fairly small setting knob in my spare parts, although the slip-on part is bigger than my extension arbor. I made a sleeve by turning a brass taper pin down to tightly fit into the knob and drilled a hole in the brass pin to accept the extension arbor.

    I was trying to figure out how to keep the knob from just turning on the new arbor and decided to flatten one side of the extension arbor and put a pin thru the knob/sleeve assembly off-center to allow it to engage the flat of the extension arbor. I'm now just trying to decide how to drill a tiny hole just off-center enough to make this work.

    Other suggestions are welcome.

    20190808_160820.jpg
     
  12. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    609 Loctite is one option.

    RC
     
  13. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    You could taper your arbor slightly and file the top few millimeters of it to a square. The edges of the square will grab inside the hole of the brass sleeve and provide sufficient friction.

    Uhralt
     
  14. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    I will use Loctite to bond the extension arbor to the arbor of the wheel, but if I bond the knob to that extension arbor, it won't be removable from the rear plate. I was looking for a way that the knob could be removed (as it probably was originally).

    I had not thought of squaring the extension and letting it cut into the brass sleeve. If I go that route, I'll need to turn another sleeve with a smaller inner bore (this sleeve is already bored to a snug fit with the extension).

    The knob has 4 slots cut in the shoulder which may complicate my plan a bit (limiting where I can drill without having a slot redirect my drill).
     
  15. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    Why didn't you drill and replace the whole pivot. Why the extension<<< I don't get it ??
     
  16. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    T2 is the arbor that extend out the front plate to run the minute hand, and the rear end of it's arbor extended out the back of the case, presumably with a knurled setting knob on it, to adjust the hands. The grease was so congealed that many of the gears would not turn, hence the torqued-off setting knob (the break being just outside the rear plate). I did not wish to recreate the entire arbor, so I was looking for the best [easy] way to replace the setting function. If we never needed to adjust the hands, the T2 would probably work just fine because the damage was outside the plates. Seemed best to leave the works working as they were (let sleeping dogs lie) and add an extension to allow setting.
     
  17. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Here is a photo of the movement as it was when I initially removed it. Another showing the rear plate with T2 installed, the stub of the broken arbor poking out. The 3rd is T2 with the hand arbor below and the broken arbor towards the top (notice the shoulder where it passes thru the rear plate).

    DSC02080.JPG DSC02123.JPG DSC02129.JPG
     
  18. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    I agree. Looks like the broken off part is the same diameter as the pivot so just cut off the stub and replace as shown. You can always drill the thick part (between the plates) and put in a pin if you don't trust Loctite.

    RC

    broken-arbor.jpg
     
  19. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Ordered some Loctite 609 (coming tomorrow). Will let you guys know how it goes.
     
  20. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Quick update... the brass sleeve fits tight in the setting knob, but the extension arbor did not fit the T2 rear arbor tight enough for the Loctite 609 to lock it. I cut off the old "insert" end and turned it to about 0.001" bigger than the 0.022" hole in the T2 arbor, applied 609 and and drove the newly turned extension into it. Time will tell, and so will I (in time).
     
  21. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    Give the Loctite 24 hours to fully cure, or an hour or so at about 140F. You can always drill a hole through the arbor and ream with a tapered broach and drive in a tapered pin cut off flush.

    RC
     
  22. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    So the 609 held and the repair turned functional. My only regret is that the stem should have been a bit longer (I was worried that it might protrude too far outside the back).
    It's reassembled, oiled and keeping good time. Thanks for the great advice and ideas! You all are the best!

    20190815_161103.jpg 20190815_161129.jpg 20190815_162851.jpg 20190815_162910.jpg
     
  23. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Great job, John. Looks good!
     
  24. John Rausch

    John Rausch Registered User
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    Mar 16, 2015
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    Thanks! Now if I can finish a few more clocks I can buy a milling machine!
     

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