Brass or steel tapered pins.

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by Kevin W., Nov 24, 2019.

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  1. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    I have a few 400 day clocks that come in for repairs, some have brass, some have steel tapered pins. The taper pins that hold the dials. I would think since its against a brass plate a steel taper pin would be used. Does it really mater which one you use?
     
  2. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Don't know that it matters but I would say that most of the clocks I have worked on have brass pins holding the dials on....that's probably true of the post WWII clocks. I've looked at some info on my much older clocks, say first quarter of the 20th century and they mostly seem like steel pins. So maybe it's an older versus newer change.

    Kurt
     
  3. Bruce Alexander

    Bruce Alexander Registered User
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    I could be wrong, of course, but my understanding is that you should use brass pins in steel arbors and vice-versa. Supposedly it makes removal easier since the two dissimilar metals are less likely to freeze or seize up over time.
     
  4. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    I have found that brass parts (like aluminum) can fuse together under pressure. If you intend to remove the pin it probably should be steel.

    Eric
     
  5. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
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    Great answers, thank you everyone.
     
  6. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Recently, I've run across a few clocks where I could not remove the dial with the movement all together...I had to leave the dial in place and disassemble the movement so I could expose the backside of the front plate to get better leverage on the brass pins into the brass standoffs from the dial.

    But I'm sure a few of these clocks had never been serviced since they left the factory. Yet, they had the brass-on-brass attachment. Does that suggest that the factory never really intended them to be serviced? Seems unlikely. :?|

    Kurt
     
  7. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    I think they intended to make money.
     
  8. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    That's what I learned too. However, I have seen steel pins in steel arbors, like for the minute hand of a Seth Thomas ships clock. The pin is obviously original and painted the same black as the domed washer on top of the minute hand.

    Also in English longcase clocks I often see steel pins holding the minute hand. I once tried to replace such a pin with a brass one but the pressure from the clutch spring under the minute wheel made the thin pin bend quite unattractively. So I assume that a steel pin in this position is also original. The same seems to be true for English Dial clocks (at least in the few examples that I laid my hands on).

    Uhralt
     
  9. Bruce Alexander

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    I've had to deal with getting a brass pin out of brass hole before and I ended up drilling it out with a Dremel. I suppose if you have to use Steel for strength, you have to do what you have to do, but it might be a good idea to place a little lubricant on it first. That and go easy in order that you don't wedge it too tightly.

    I don't know Uhrait as I've never encountered examples like those you've cited above.
     
  10. Bod

    Bod Registered User

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    PH7 (2).JPG
    My next project, P Hauck, steel pin in a steel arbour. Partly broken, and rusted in.
    Plan is to use "Plus-gas" penetrating fluid, and replace with a brass pin.
    The clock has been stored long term, wrapped in white paper, which has got damp, most of the steel shows rust damage, but has cleaned off reasonably, and doesn't affect running.

    Bod
     
  11. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I tend to go with AeroKroil as my penetrant. I've heard (and used in the past on my old Firebird) that a 50-50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid is the best.

    212342.jpg

    On these types of things, and some stuck brass pins holding a dial on, a good penetrant and time are your best friends.

    Kurt
     
  12. Wayne A

    Wayne A Registered User

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    Kroil is the best penetrate I've ever seen. Its the product of choice at the oil refinery I used to work. Stuff works like magic, slightly stinky magic. Name changes depending on container its in, aerokroil comes in spray can, kanokroil comes in a can. But they all say "the oil that creeps".
     
  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    As an after thought, I think the mix of ATF and acetone might not be good for the finish on the plates...acetone and all. But dabbed in spots like the rusted pin on the minute hand arbor might work well.

    Kurt
     
  14. TQ60

    TQ60 Registered User

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    Atf is very high in detergent and as such good at getting things into solution.

    Nasty grease on hands easily cut with squirt of att.

    A drop from toothpick will work in.

    Paint thinner is extremely thin oil, it does wonders too.
     
  15. measuretwice

    measuretwice Registered User

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    When dealing with fasteners, you are not suppose mix up brass and steel as they are far enough apart in the galvanic series that it us suppose to speed up corrosion. Steel taper pins in steel shafts are very common and I can only once recall having to drill one out. otoh, brass shear pins in steel shafts are also common and I can't recall finding one badly corroded. Perhaps its not a big issue either way?
     

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