Brand new Hermle 261-080A won't work

[TerryM]

I purchased a new replacement Hermle 261-080A mechanism to replace the original unit in our 1983 Zaandam Dutch Clock. Before I installed the new unit, I had to swap two parts from the original mechanism over to the new mechanism, those parts being the 6 cm suspension post and the anchor/ crutch assembly. The two new parts were much shorter than the original. After reinstalling the new components, I could not get the clock to run for more than 30 seconds, regardless of how much I move the clock assembly to find the right beat sound. I removed and bench mounted the new assembly out of the clock, leveled and plumbed it and still couldn't get it to work. I then reinstalled the new suspension post and anchor/crutch assembly, used the new leader with the original pendulum and weights, but still could not get this to run. My wife and I purchased this clock in February and it worked fine for approximately 3 months and then we started noticing that every time we wound it, it progressively became harder to get it started again so I ordered a replacement mechanism for it based upon the information on the back plate of the original. Is it possible that the original mechanism is a 23 cm mechanism with a 31 cm stamp, based upon the length assembly depicted in my photos, if that makes sense? Would the gearing be different between a 23cm and a 31cm mechanism? and would it be enough to keep the clock from running? Please any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[THTanner]

The most likely issue is that the number of teeth spanned by the old anchor is not the same as required for the new escape wheel. The pendulum length and the number of teeth in the escape wheel are highly correlated and an important consideration. Assuming that the old arbor for the anchor still has proper end play between the new movement plates, then I would check to see how many teeth are between the pallets in the old movement with its original anchor and how many teeth are between the pallets in the new movement with its anchor. If these two anchors are not almost exactly the same width and shape, then the angle of the impulse face will not be proper with the old anchor on the new escape wheel.

 

[Altashot]

The new movement might be auto-beat whereas the old one wasn’t.

Check that the escape wheels look the same. Auto-beat verges and escape wheel won’t work with the old type of escarpment.

M.

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

The new unit should be manual beat set so the beat needs to be set or it will stop quickly. In addition, from the picture it appears the leader is against the back of the crutch slot. The crutch needs to be bent outward so the leader falls between the front and back of the crutch.

 

[disciple_dan]

Did you adjust the proper drop and lock when you installed the verge?

 

[shutterbug]

Mark and disciple dan have noted what I see in your pictures. The anchor exchange is not plug and play. If the two movement do not have identical escape wheels running in the same direction it will be a big issue. Setting the anchor for proper interaction with the teeth is also important. You may end up having to switch the escape wheels too. Pictures of the EW's and anchors of both clocks will help us determine what you need to do.

 

[R. Croswell]

Did the movement run properly on the test stand with all the new parts that came with the movement in place? The length of the pendulum has nothing to do with whether the clock will run, just whether it will keep time. Looks like the suspension post assembly also has the pivot hole for the anchor. You should be able to raise or lower this part slightly to get the escapement to have proper lock and drop. It won't run if the escapement isn't adjusted properly. If it were my clock I would not want the old worn anchor and pivot hole in my new movement. You should be able to remove just the suspension post and swap out the short one, and attach the old crutch to the new anchor, or just extend it as needed.

RC

 

[Dick Feldman]

There are many factors that are necessary for the movement to run. If one factor is missing, the clock will not run. If two factors are missing, the problem is magnified more than twice. With three, etc.
As was said, change of the verge and crutch assembly may not be physically possible. I would be skeptical as the original bridge holds the pivot for the verge arbor. One of the reasons for the failure in the original movement may have been wear in that pivot hole. By reintroducing that possible wear to the system, you may have second, third, etc. reason the movement will not run.
It looks to me like the pendulum length has been changed on the “new” movement before shipping to you. I would contact the supplier of the new movement for an explanation of the pendulum length being scribed in the rear plate rather than being stamped as is the norm. If the movement has been disassembled to swap wheels, it is possible something may be wrong with the new movement. In swapping parts between the two movements, you may have unknowingly missed necessary depth adjustment on the escape assembly. You may want to exercise your warranty rights on the new movement. Your photo of the new movement is not clear enough to discern much more than that scribed number.
My impression is that you are into this project well beyond your capabilities with little hope of resolving the problem/s.
It is quite difficult to give the necessary background in clock repair as well as to trouble shoot your situation.
You may want to consult a clock repair professional who can make a decision with all of the parts in front of him/her.
Best of luck with your clock.
Dick

 

[TerryM]

Thanks to all of you that responded to my dilemma. That evening I bench mounted the new replacement mechanism with all the factory parts (out of the box) with the pendulum and weights, plumbed and leveled, it ran all night into the next day. I removed the anchor and post assemblies and counted the teeth on the escape wheels of both units (they were equal). I miked and/ or calipered both the pin ends of the anchor shaft and the anchor of both pieces that were within a tolerance of 1-2 /1000ths, including the gap between the two anchor ends. I did however have to rotate the older anchor on it's shaft in order to set it to the new movement's escape wheel. After some tweaking, squinting and sweating, I managed to get the new unit operational. The next day it was time to install it in the case and rehang the clock. All is well this morning and had to adjust the pendulum (running a little slow). Time will tell!

 

[THTanner]

I did however have to rotate the older anchor on it's shaft in order to set it to the new movement's escape wheel.

great job and great report -