Black Forest twin fussee movement

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by ballistarius, Mar 1, 2010.

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  1. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Hi folks,

    A few pìcs of my last toy from Heckbay (not yet arrived): A battered Black Forest detached movement. It has fussees on each of its two trains.
    I thought I knew a few things on Black Forest clocks, but not enough for this one, evidently:rolleyes:
    Could somebody help me about which kind of case would have housed this movement (are the hands original, BTW?) and about the kind of pendulum it needs?
    Many thanks in advance :cool:

    Aitor
     

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  2. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Nice. Here is mine, similar but striking on a top mounted bell (these photos were posted here last year). Winterhalder Hofmeier used that style of pendulum, the leader hangs under the suspension spring. The hands on your movement look correct.
     

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  3. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Wow, many thanks for so much information, Chris!!:)
    I'd wish that my clock were in nearly such a fine condition as yours...:cool:
    I suspect that your clock was originally intended to strike on a gong, because there are two (now unsused) attachments for a gong on the back board and the horizontal hammer arbor is usually associated with a gong. Besides that, the cutout to the upper cage board for giving room to the hammer looks a little crude:confused:
    Could you, please, post a pic of the detached pendulum and give me its dimensions?
    What is the dial made of, painted metal?

    Aitor
     
  4. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Aitor, I can assure you your movement is rare, only I recognized it immediately because I have a similar one.

    The pendulum on this clock is 8 inches long. The case is 16 1/2 inches high.

    This clock has been striking on a bell for a very long time. The wood cut out to fit the hammer is dark, indicating age. I think the backboard was ready-made for a gong, which was removed? :???:

    Most of these early Winterhalder Hofmeier clocks were manufactured for the English market. My clock was mailed to me from the UK, I've had it for about 6 months. The clock was very dry, the case shattered in a few places during transit :( but I was able to glue it back together, and clean the old coal soot :) There is a bit missing from the bottom of the back, and some of the brass inlay (about 60% is missing) seemed beyond cleaning.

    These movements were mounted in different cases. I have not seen this case before, or since. The top steel tab is mounted in the top wood movement plate, and fits in a slot cut at the top of the case. The bottom movement tab is on the seat board, which appears to have always been glued in the case. The dial is painted metal.
     

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  5. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Aug 24, 2000
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    The photos of the BF fusee movement posted by Ballistarius should have hands made of brass castings, not stamped steel.

    The condition of the top plate being split and battered is suspicious of an unlearned attempt to disassemble the movement.

    The movement vertical plates appear to have brass liners for the pivot holes, a sign of quality.

    JMO,
     
  6. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Many thanks, Chris and Les!:cool:
    My movement comes from England too, Chris:)
    Is your pendulum bob solid brass?
    I still think that, even if the change to bell is old, your clock had a gong originally. Look, there is a slot at the top right side of the case prepared for receiving a second steel tab from the movement. The tab disappeared when the cutout for the hammer was made.

    Les, I too think that somebody tried to disassemble the movement without letting the mainsprings down. I just hope that there will be no teeth damaged...:eek:

    Aitor
     
  7. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    Yes, the pendulum is solid brass. I suppose some type of modern wood glue would give a nearly invisible repair to your top plate. Titebond waterproof glue, or some epoxy-like material.

    I'm sure these early W+H clocks had all sorts of prefabricated case components, that were modified without rhyme or reason. Later in the history of the company, the clocks became less primitive, and more refined. The later W+H clocks are known for the quality of their movements.
     
  8. laprade

    laprade Banned

    Sep 10, 2008
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    Eckmill, is right about the hands. Better quality BFs had the brass hands as shown in pic 1

    However, they also used pressed hands as shown in the second picture.
     

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  9. laprade

    laprade Banned

    Sep 10, 2008
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    Irish, but live in Laprade, 16390, France, (70 mil
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    forgot this one:-
     

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  10. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

    Feb 18, 2004
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    All these earlier W+H clocks have steel hands. Each clock is pictured with it's corresponding movement, the drop dial also with label.
     

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  11. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    I think that the evidence given by Chris for the originality of iron hands is overwhelming.
    As a side thought, probably British customers found blued steel hands more appealing than the common 'massive' cast brass ones:cool:
    Just the opposite we do today...;)

    Aitor
     
  12. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Arrived...
    I shall need more time to inspect it. The striking train spring-barrel is strangely loos from its arbor. evidently somebody tried to disassemble it without letting the springs go down... Aparently no broken teeth or distorted wheels:myhappy:
    I am a little ashamed to confess it but, as I don't want to be the next one involved in ruining this once nice movement...
    Common BF movements have their mounting posts held to the upper plates by means of nails or wire rods. Not the case of this one...:confused:
    Help, please...
    Many thanks:cool:

    Aitor
     
  13. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Hey, wait a moment...
    How silly...:}
    The usual metal nails/pegs are there, just pinned down nearly flush with the upper board surface...:mad:
    Well, tomorrow will be another day and maybe I'll be able to sleep long enough... For now it will suffice to have disasembled fragile parts like hands and pendulum suspension (a really long and slender spring suspension)

    Aitor
     

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