Black Forest ornate cuckoo clock !9th C

jeules0

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This is the second Cuckoo Clock that I bought today. This one cost £140.

Wooden plates, weight driven with original weights, ornate case, all complete with no damage. Matching original grid-iron pendulum. Again, seems to be working. 16.5" high.

No maker's name on this one, so any info gratefully received.
 

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ticktock19852004

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Hello!

I have one quiet similar. My gothic cuckoo has a pinned brass movement though. It seems mine was produced just about the same time they started to use brass movements in cuckoos. It just missed the wood plate movements. I'll post pics of mine later, it is getting to be bedtime soon.

Thanks!

Neal
 

harold bain

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Nice looking early cuckoo, Chris. Unusual bird door. Two great clocks:thumb:
 

jeules0

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Hello!

I have one quiet similar. My gothic cuckoo has a pinned brass movement though. It seems mine was produced just about the same time they started to use brass movements in cuckoos. It just missed the wood plate movements. I'll post pics of mine later, it is getting to be bedtime soon.

Thanks!

Neal
Thanks Harold and Neal for your comments. Look forward to seeing yours, Neal. Gothic seems a very appropriate word for this style: very reminiscent of a cathedral or church, rather than the usual chalet style.

Chris
 

jeules0

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Hello!

Here are the pictures. Your cuckoo is more ornate than mine is. But, you can see the similarities. Mine has both bone hands and bone numerals. The top crest is not original.
Thanks!

Neal
Thanks for showing your clock, Neal. As you say, very similar style. Does this gothic look have a special name, does anyone know?
 

ticktock19852004

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Hello!

The only name I have heard this style cuckoo clock being called is "gothic".

Other cuckoo styles are traditional, chalet, architectural, rail road, etc.

I'm not sure if there would be a way to find out a model name such as many American clocks have. I have a 1903 Sears Roebuck catalog, in which a few cuckoo clocks were for sale. They merchandised both the "traditional" and "railroad" style cuckoos. In the catalog they are just referred to as cuckoo clocks. No brand or style names.

Thanks!

Neal
 

jeules0

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Neal, I think mine is No. 361 in the Beha catalogue: mine is missing the crown, although I can't see how this attaches.

Chris
 

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ticktock19852004

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Hello!

Yes, I was going to suggest it being a Beha. However, I wasn't completely positive, so I didn't bring it up. I would say it is a Beha. Notice, in the catalog there are a few slight differences in the drawing. Although, I know makers didn't always produce them exactly. Nice cuckoo clock. I am no expert in the world of Black Forest clocks, but have been around quiet a few Beha clocks.

Thanks!

Neal
 

jeules0

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Hello!

Yes, I was going to suggest it being a Beha. However, I wasn't completely positive, so I didn't bring it up. I would say it is a Beha. Notice, in the catalog there are a few slight differences in the drawing. Although, I know makers didn't always produce them exactly. Nice cuckoo clock. I am no expert in the world of Black Forest clocks, but have been around quiet a few Beha clocks.

Thanks!

Neal
Thanks, Neal. Just noticed, here is also a larger but virtually identical clock in the catalogue, no.597.

Presumably the cases were made to order, and copied from a pattern, so might not be exactly the same each time? Perhaps someone could enlighten me on production methods.

I have a picture in my mind of a Bavarian family sitting by the fire on a winter's evening whittling away! Yeah, I know, in my dreams.......
 

zepernick

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Chris --

I've a Beha 361 (that needs considerable work) and it does match the catalogue illustration almost exactly. Below is a photo of the bob that came with it, the photo at least fresh this morning ;).

Suppose that the tendency to lean towards Beha IDs, in general, is because they're the best known among the "name brand" makers. Yet it would appear that all of the specialty cuckoo makers, and most of the larger firms that also dealt in these types of "Black Forest clocks," also sold cuckoos (or cuckoo and quails) in similar style cases.

For example, the other illustration below is from a Philipp Haas & Söhne catalogue from around 1910. They were flogging a similar-style cuckoo some 20 years earlier, as well.

Regards,
Zep
 

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jeules0

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Chris --

I've a Beha 361 (that needs considerable work) and it does match the catalogue illustration almost exactly. Below is a photo of the bob that came with it, the photo at least fresh this morning ;).

Suppose that the tendency to lean towards Beha IDs, in general, is because they're the best known among the "name brand" makers. Yet it would appear that all of the specialty cuckoo makers, and most of the larger firms that also dealt in these types of "Black Forest clocks," also sold cuckoos (or cuckoo and quails) in similar style cases.

For example, the other illustration below is from a Philipp Haas & Söhne catalogue from around 1910. They were flogging a similar-style cuckoo some 20 years earlier, as well.

Regards,
Zep
Thanks for your input, Zep. I take your point about case styles. Is there any way of identifying a Beha by the movement? If you look at my original post, you can see an oblique metal strip behind the countwheel: I have read somewhere that this is a Beha characteristic.

Chris
 

zepernick

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It would be nice if, for example, we knew how often countwheels on Beha clocks were stamped with a JBB (see below, as on the clock I'd mentioned above).
 

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jeules0

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Neal and Zep, thanks for your thoughts on what to look for in a Beha.

Mine should have a crown, and Beha or not I decided to have a go at making one similar to no. 361 in the catalogue. I borrowed a friend's electric scroll saw and this is the result. As a first attempt at something like this, I'm pretty pleased with the result.
 

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harold bain

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Nice work, Chris. Looks like it belongs on that clock.:thumb::thumb:
 

BLACK FOREST CLOCKS

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Thanks for your input, Zep. I take your point about case styles. Is there any way of identifying a Beha by the movement? If you look at my original post, you can see an oblique metal strip behind the countwheel: I have read somewhere that this is a Beha characteristic.

Chris
Using the case to attribute the clock to a maker is not possible, as Zep pointed out, the same case styles were used by many firms.

There are documented examples where the same case maker supplied the identical cases to competing companies... so from the outside it is impossible to ID the clock 100%.

Beha is one of the most overly attributed makers. A example are clocks made by the Ketterer's in Furtwangen. Ketterer's use many of the well known "Beha" characteristics on the movements, and Ketterer's used identical/nearly identical case styles... because of this Ketterer's are frequently called Behas...

Ideally the movements made by Beha are marked as shown by Zep... but far more often than not... no marking will be found.

Zep- I enjoyed seeing the photo of the JBB stamped count wheel! Thanks for posting that.

Justin
 

jeules0

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Using the case to attribute the clock to a maker is not possible, as Zep pointed out, the same case styles were used by many firms.

There are documented examples where the same case maker supplied the identical cases to competing companies... so from the outside it is impossible to ID the clock 100%.

Beha is one of the most overly attributed makers. A example are clocks made by the Ketterer's in Furtwangen. Ketterer's use many of the well known "Beha" characteristics on the movements, and Ketterer's used identical/nearly identical case styles... because of this Ketterer's are frequently called Behas...

Ideally the movements made by Beha are marked as shown by Zep... but far more often than not... no marking will be found.

Zep- I enjoyed seeing the photo of the JBB stamped count wheel! Thanks for posting that.

Justin
Justin, thanks for your detailed response. Based on comments received, I am now tending towards thinking that this one is not a Beha.

Harold, thanks for the compliment regarding the crest!

The other cuckoo clock, a fusee, that I posted at the same time, has the name {BEHA} impressed into the top lintel of the wooden movement, so no doubt about that one.

Chris
 

BLACK FOREST CLOCKS

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Justin, thanks for your detailed response. Based on comments received, I am now tending towards thinking that this one is not a Beha.

Harold, thanks for the compliment regarding the crest!

The other cuckoo clock, a fusee, that I posted at the same time, has the name {BEHA} impressed into the top lintel of the wooden movement, so no doubt about that one.

Chris
Chris,

I think your clock is a BEHA.

My points on the post was just that many are over attributed.

Nice finds,

Justin
 

jeules0

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Hello!

That is a nice looking top crest. Great job. :D

Thanks!

Neal
Thanks, Neal, kind of you to say so. When I looked closely at the roof of the clock, I could see the little pin-holes where the original had been attached. Clock looks more 'balanced' with a crest.

Regards, Chris
 

danljr_e1f471

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This is a Beha cuckoo number 116. The front surround, crown and the works are held in place by a hook and eye.
The plates are wooden.
A double door opens up to reveal a large Cuckoo bird. It has a very authentic sound to it.
It really is a joy.
-> posts merged by system <-
This is my pride and joy. A very large wall hanging spring wind Black Forest Cuckoo. It is stamped IB an unknown Black Forest clockmaker.

The hands are a rose motif carved from bone. The numerals are a porcelain shield on top of brass.

(again, thank you J)
 

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BLACK FOREST CLOCKS

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This is a Beha cuckoo number 116. The front surround, crown and the works are held in place by a hook and eye.
The plates are wooden.
A double door opens up to reveal a large Cuckoo bird. It has a very authentic sound to it.
It really is a joy.
-> posts merged by system <-
This is my pride and joy. A very large wall hanging spring wind Black Forest Cuckoo. It is stamped IB an unknown Black Forest clockmaker.

The hands are a rose motif carved from bone. The numerals are a porcelain shield on top of brass.

(again, thank you J)
Good looking BF clocks! :eek:
 
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