Black Forest movement clock

dvdberg

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Apr 24, 2021
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First post! I have discovered this morning that this clock is a Black Forest movement clock. I'd like to share the pics with all the service dates on it and look for some more info as to your best guess as to how old it is. The first date on it is August, 1864. Inside the back panel there is a signature, maybe the maker? Thanks for your input! 20210424_165206.jpg 20210424_165418.jpg 20210424_165536.jpg 20210424_165725.jpg 20210424_165748.jpg 20210424_165900.jpg 20210424_170025.jpg 20210424_170033.jpg 20210424_170039.jpg 20210424_170410.jpg 20210424_170556.jpg 20210424_170613.jpg 20210424_170744.jpg 20210424_170814.jpg 20210424_170919.jpg 20210424_170953.jpg 20210424_171012.jpg 20210424_165418.jpg
 
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Mike Phelan

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My guess is not too much older than the 1864 date you have, with the steel (not wood) arbors and the side-by-side (not front and back) movement.
 

Betzel

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Very interesting piece. I like the artwork a lot. If you search on Schwarzwälder Rahmenuhr, you will see others. Your movement is very similar to mine, and many here thought mine was 1850 - 1860, which it might apply to yours. Some quotes I have shared from my research may help, so here it is:

"Karl Kochmann's "Black Forest Clockmaker and the Cuckoo Clock" details several aspects of the Black Forest clocks that indicate basic age (+/-).
steel arbors with milled pinions = 1840-1895
lantern pinions with steel arbors = 1830 on
time & strike trains side-by-side = after 1852
I'm not sure of the dates, but coiled gong usually indicates second half of 1800's."
Yours is side by side, and all wood is gone from the movement components. But, your weights and pendulum seem original.

Most of the markings beyond layout lines are probably after sales serving remarks, but others may know more. The wood screws, bell and spike supporting it do not look original to me, and the pinion on the front, coming off the great wheel also looks to be a repair, as most had some wood at the cannon and used a lantern in the front. If not, yours may be later than mine, closer to 1860?

Given basic love these are very sturdy timekeepers. I hope you enjoy your new find.
 
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JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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Welcome to the board.

It is indeed a Black Forest wooden-works clock and I suppose it can date from around 1850.

The names written on the wood are interesting because at least two of them are in Hungarian.
That is to say, the name is written in Hungarian manner (family name first, then forename) followed by the word órás, which is Hungarian for clockmaker.

Unfortunately, only one of your pictures of the writing is really sharp. The other are very blurred when enlarged and hard to read. Particularly photo No. 9 has a Hungarian name XXXXXX József but the top line is not in focus, so cannot tell the surname.

One of the names, Dura, occurs in Romania, which of course was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire at that time, and in the Romanian area known as Transylvania (Erdélyi in Hungarian), the Hungarian language was widely spoken.

If you could post sharper photos of the writing it would be a great help.

Hope this helps a little.

JTD
 
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dvdberg

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Apr 24, 2021
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It is indeed a Black Forest wooden-works clock and I suppose it can date from around 1850.

The names written on the wood are interesting because at least two of them are in Hungarian.
That is to say, the name is written in Hungarian manner (family name first, then forename) followed by the word órás, which is Hungarian for clockmaker.

Unfortunately, only one of your pictures of the writing is really sharp. The other are very blurred when enlarged and hard to read. Particularly photo No. 9 has a Hungarian name XXXXXX József but the top line is not in focus, so cannot tell the surname.

One of the names, Dura, occurs in Romania, which of course was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire at that time, and in the Romanian area known as Transylvania (Erdélyi in Hungarian), the Hungarian language was widely spoken.

JTD
Thanks for your input JTD. Those pictures are about as good as it gets. The years have faded and the wood fuzzified the writing. Inside the clock, on the back wall is the writing that suggests the clock maker's name, but then maybe not, now I see, very faintly 1928/XI/:???: above the name. The name reads, to my best guess, Sai?ueburr JozzeY oras.

The writing on one door is Schirterfaims oiros and Stineel Jurý Sikürevri (all just my best guess). The other door Durou Stinier Rugolea. The back plate is Kūpnsimū 30 Gúr. The rest is too indecipherable.

Got any ideas about the 9 digit number inscribed at the top?

Would love to get the translation right and put a note in the clock for future owners.
 
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JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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The name reads, to my best guess, Sai?ueburr JozzeY oras.
The second name here is József, as I said earlier. The other Hungarian name you have is Schuter János, órás, 12.8.1922. (The word órás means clockmaker in Hungarian, as you know).

The other door Durou Stinier Rugolea.
The name you are reading as Durou is actually Dura. The letter a at the end is how some of us were taught to write that letter, it is not ou. The name Stince appears several times on this clock, and Rugolea is also a name. However these are seemingly Croat names, not Hungarian. But that is not unusual in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Stineel Jurý Sikürevri
This may be Stince Jurij [in] Sikirevci, which is a small place in Croatia. The date is 5/1 929 (this was a common way of writing the year 1929).

Got any ideas about the 9 digit number inscribed at the top?
This looks to me like a modern addition and may be a telephone number or someone's social security or driving licence number. Some people do this in order to identify their property if it ever got stolen.

JTD
 

dvdberg

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Apr 24, 2021
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Thanks very much JTD!
 

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