Bird Cage Clock

[timbo19]

Hi - could anyone with experience of repairing a bird cage clock give me some advice please. A friend has asked me if I could repair his early 19C bird cage clock and as I have never worked on such a clock I am wondering if it might be beyond my capability. I have just finished repairing a fusee clock, with success at last. The bird cage is currently using a continuous rope that is leaving the mechanism in a mess - I think it should be using a chain. The clock runs for about 1 hour and then stops but if the rope is pulled slightly to turn the chime wheel then the clock continues to run for 24 hours. The problem appears to be centered on the large chime wheel next to the centre plate. If anyone has experience of dismantling such a clock and any particular points to watch out for, I would be grateful for any advice before I say I will attempt to repair it. Many thanks. Attached are some photos - I have more if necessary!
Timbo

 

[Mike Phelan]

Hi Timbo,
Firstly, you cannot simply swap from rope to chain as the sprockets on the great wheels are totally different.

I'm assuming that what you call a chime wheel is the striking great wheel - it doesn't chime - and thit will certainly need dismantling as will the rest of the clock.
The click might need attention and there might be some wear on the great wheel where the click contacts it. This
There should be no problem using rope, though the one in use might need replacing.
A nice early 1700's clock.

 

[wisty]

When you say the clock runs for an hour, do you mean a whole hour after winding, or does it stop the first time it comes to the hour and tries to strike? I suspect the latter.
The wheel that is giving trouble is the strike great wheel, and that carries the winding click. So when you wind the clock you rotate it backwards slightly - or at least take the power off it and the rest of the strike train. That it stops when it then reaches the hour suggests that one of the levers in the strike mechanism is getting stuck. Applying extra power (pulling) frees it off and the power on the train keeps it in place until its wound next time. The lever pivot may be worn, or the lever itself may have a burr or groove.
I have a couple of 30 hour lantern clocks ( one dated 1668) with very similar movements. They are not complex to work on The pivots and arbours are fairly substantial and you can usually assemble the two trains separately by putting the centre plate in. If you can deal with a fuzee clock this should not be beyond your skills.
As Mike says the clock looks as if it was originally designed for rope. Remember that in the early 1700's chain would have been VERY expensive - each link hand made. Rope would have been the cheaper option.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

It looks like it is designed for rope, not chain, there is no accommodation for the links that would go between the spikes. I would think it is mid 18thC.

What weight is being used?

It may be lacking power because it is due for a service and possible rebushing.

Posted frame movements are relatively easy to work on as you can deal with one train at a time if you wish.

 

[timbo19]

Hi Timbo,
Firstly, you cannot simply swap from rope to chain as the sprockets on the great wheels are totally different.

I'm assuming that what you call a chime wheel is the striking great wheel - it doesn't chime - and thit will certainly need dismantling as will the rest of the clock.
The click might need attention and there might be some wear on the great wheel where the click contacts it. This
There should be no problem using rope, though the one in use might need replacing.
A nice early 1700's clock.

Thanks Mike - I mentioned the rope as the clock is full of rope dust and the rope is only about 2 years old - perhaps it was the incorrect type of rope. Thank you also for telling me what the striking great wheel is called - I will proceed with caution with such an old clock that isn't mine and let you know how it goes - it may be a while as I have several other clocks from friends waiting in the queue!!

 

[timbo19]

It looks like it is designed for rope, not chain, there is no accommodation for the links that would go between the spikes. I would think it is mid 18thC.

What weight is being used?

It may be lacking power because it is due for a service and possible rebushing.

Posted frame movements are relatively easy to work on as you can deal with one train at a time if you wish.

Thanks for this - I don't have the weight at the moment but it was given to my friend by a local clock repairer who said the one that was on it was too heavy. I will be looking at the bushes when I start work.

 

[timbo19]

Thanks for this - I don't have the weight at the moment but it was given to my friend by a local clock repairer who said the one that was on it was too heavy. I will be looking at the bushes when I start work.

It looks like it is designed for rope, not chain, there is no accommodation for the links that would go between the spikes. I would think it is mid 18thC.

What weight is being used?

It may be lacking power because it is due for a service and possible rebushing.

Posted frame movements are relatively easy to work on as you can deal with one train at a time if you wish.

Hi novicetimekeeper - here are the weights - the one on the left came with the clock when my friend purchased it and weighs 11lbs - the one on the right is one sold to my friend when he had the clock repaired by a local man and weighs 3.5kgs. The rope has been in use for about 5 years but my friend had great problems in trying to splice it so that may account for its condition. The rope very dry - should it be treated in any way?. I will get a new rope but it would be good to know if it should be treated. Thanks

 

[novicetimekeeper]

No pic, but 3.5 kilos should be loads for a well maintained 30 hour. The rope doesn't need treating, and yes rope driven clocks do get a lot of rope fluff. I don't splice but that is the right way to do it.


The rope is available in different sizes, so get the right one for your clock. There is also a synthetic version that does not produce fluff.

 

[timbo19]

No pic, but 3.5 kilos should be loads for a well maintained 30 hour. The rope doesn't need treating, and yes rope driven clocks do get a lot of rope fluff. I don't splice but that is the right way to do it.


The rope is available in different sizes, so get the right one for your clock. There is also a synthetic version that does not produce fluff.

Sorry about photo - old age excuse!! - here it is
How do you join the rope? My friend ended up gluing it but that seems a little hazardous to me and it did provide a bump in the rope which will not have helped. Are there any determinants for sizing the rope? - my usual clock parts supplier has them from 5 - 8mm.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

The width of the gap on the spiked wheels decides the rope size.

I use a system a friend uses. Slice at 30 degrees. apply araldite, not the quick setting one. roll it between your fingers as it sets make sure you have the glue well down in the fibres. Once it has set you can whip the joint, use a needle to stitch through the joint.

Have a go at whipping though, plenty of tutorials on the net.

 

[timbo19]

The width of the gap on the spiked wheels decides the rope size.

I use a system a friend uses. Slice at 30 degrees. apply araldite, not the quick setting one. roll it between your fingers as it sets make sure you have the glue well down in the fibres. Once it has set you can whip the joint, use a needle to stitch through the joint.

Have a go at whipping though, plenty of tutorials on the net.

Thanks - I have done quite a lot of whipping mainly for making rope hand supports on staircases; those ropes were thicker but have stood the test of being used constantly many times a day so will certainly try with the clock rope.

 

[timbo19]

The width of the gap on the spiked wheels decides the rope size.

I use a system a friend uses. Slice at 30 degrees. apply araldite, not the quick setting one. roll it between your fingers as it sets make sure you have the glue well down in the fibres. Once it has set you can whip the joint, use a needle to stitch through the joint.

Have a go at whipping though, plenty of tutorials on the net.
I

The width of the gap on the spiked wheels decides the rope size.

I use a system a friend uses. Slice at 30 degrees. apply araldite, not the quick setting one. roll it between your fingers as it sets make sure you have the glue well down in the fibres. Once it has set you can whip the joint, use a needle to stitch through the joint.

Have a go at whipping though, plenty of tutorials on the net.

I am about to order some rope - the space between the plates of the pulley is 8.00mm -what width of rope would you recommend - 7 or 8 mm? Thanks

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I am about to order some rope - the space between the plates of the pulley is 8.00mm -what width of rope would you recommend - 7 or 8 mm? Thanks

Either would be more than strong enough, personally I think 8 as under tension I imagine it will be less.

 

[timbo19]

Either would be more than strong enough, personally I think 8 as under tension I imagine it will be less.

Thanks - rope on order and we will see what the rest looks like when I dismantle the clock. I am ordering the rope now as I need supplies for a different repair job and I live in France but the supplies come from the UK and I try to save on postage etc!!