Bim bam??

RJSoftware

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What exactly is a bim bam?

Why I ask this is I see on ebay people reffer to some clocks as bim bam.

But I'm not sure they are correct.

I have 3 Gilberts that might qualify as bim bams.

1 that goes bim bam (seperate rods) to anounce the quarter hours and on the hour it strikes both rods same time to strike out the hour. It's a humpback.

1 that goes bim bam on seperate rods to strike out the hour and does 1 rod for the half. It's a humpback as well.

1 clock that goes bim bam on seperate rods to strike out the hour and does 1 rod for half. But I know that the strike is reffered to as Normandy chimes (Normandy strike??)

I thought, that at one time somebody explained to me that a true bim bam is like my first clock where it does the 1/4 hour as bim bam and strikes both rods same time for the hour.

If that is so, then what is the name of the strike for the others that dont strike both rods for the hour?

Interesting how the first clock shifts the barrel to strike both and shifts back to do the bim bam...

RJ
 

RJSoftware

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What exactly is a bim bam?

Why I ask this is I see on ebay people reffer to some clocks as bim bam.

But I'm not sure they are correct.

I have 3 Gilberts that might qualify as bim bams.

1 that goes bim bam (seperate rods) to anounce the quarter hours and on the hour it strikes both rods same time to strike out the hour. It's a humpback.

1 that goes bim bam on seperate rods to strike out the hour and does 1 rod for the half. It's a humpback as well.

1 clock that goes bim bam on seperate rods to strike out the hour and does 1 rod for half. But I know that the strike is reffered to as Normandy chimes (Normandy strike??)

I thought, that at one time somebody explained to me that a true bim bam is like my first clock where it does the 1/4 hour as bim bam and strikes both rods same time for the hour.

If that is so, then what is the name of the strike for the others that dont strike both rods for the hour?

Interesting how the first clock shifts the barrel to strike both and shifts back to do the bim bam...

RJ
 

RJSoftware

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Ok, so I guess none of you really know.

Phil; I still don't understand the Karma points. I see my score is same.

See here is the issue about the bim bam.

There is this wheel/gear that operates the hammers on the above mentioned clock.

I believe the only true bim bam movement is the one that has extra configuration to pull that wheel/gear in or out to modify the strike.

You see, during the 1/4 hour strikes it does both rods.

Bim bam for 15 after.
Bim bam bim bam for 30 after.
Bim bam bim bam bim bam for 45 after.
Then on the hour it strikes both.

My thinking is that this particular movement may be worth much more than the others, cause I rarely ever see it.

But ebay sellers say they have a bim bam and I think they do not.

RJ
 

Larry

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RJ,
I have a german bracket mantel that has such an unusal striking sequence that at first I thought it was broken:
quarter: bim-bam
half: bim-bam; bim-bam
three quarter: single tone times three
Hour: bim-bam for each hour count

I like it!

Larry
 

Joe Collins

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You see, during the 1/4 hour strikes it does both rods.

Bim bam for 15 after.
Bim bam bim bam for 30 after.
Bim bam bim bam bim bam for 45 after.
Then on the hour it strikes both.
I always thought this type strike was called "Petite Sonnerie" I have a Lenzkirch with this strike pattern.

Joe
 
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Larry

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Joe,
I thought "Petite Sonnerie" was the standard ring for west. through the three quarters but with the full 16 count prior to the hour absent and the hour ringing only the hour count.

I'm sure someone can sort this stuff and cite references.

Larry
 

Tony Ambruso

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Originally posted by Phil Schilke:
Hi RJ,

Loosing Karma points I see....

Bim Bam is a dual note strike for each "strike"

So at 2 O'Clock you get Bim-Bam Bim-Bam. Make sense?
Not that he needs my support, but Phil has provided the answer I was given in the NAWCC School of Horology. I worked on a bim-bam in lab.
 
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SrWilson

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Bim bam is just the name the US seems to use for the ting tang strike.

Half hour strike clocks with this are referred as Bim bam strike clocks.

And european 1/4 striking clocks with ting tang quarters and then strike the hours on one big bell or gong or rod are petit sonnerie.

The petit sonnerie is the original real use for the ting tang strikes I belive since tower clocks were doing this since right back into the 15th century.

Infact some really early clocks marked the quarters with just one note too. and then struck the hours on a different bell.
 

RJSoftware

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Srwilson;

For a guy in your 20's you know your stuff!! I seen your collection. Let me ask (if you don't mind) do you view your clocks as a future investment? Or strictly enjoyment -or both?

Ok so back to my original question/thoughts.

So perhaps it is a petit sonnerie that only has 2 rods.

Perhaps this is Gilbert American version of petit sonnerie. (cheaper American production).

So now I am left also with the thought that Normandy chimes are really a bim bam (ting tang) strike.

I guess this is a minute concearn except that when bidding on ebay, wasn't sure what I was getting.

RJ
 

Larry

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I saw another definition on the web for the striking:

Grand: strikes the hours and quarters on the quarters as well as the hour.

Petite: strikes only the quarter notes e.g. doesn't include the hour count at each quarter the way the grand does but does count the hours at 12.

Larry
 
C

Clickman

Larry, I'm working on a Seth Thomas, Camel Back, that Bim-Bam's the same as you described. It's the first one I remember having that did it on the quarter, half, and three quarter. But, my memory isn't very long either. ;)
 

zepernick

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Some sources do see "bim-bam" as another term for "ting-tang". For instance, the respected British reference, Donald de Carle's _Watch & Clock Encyclopedia_ (3rd ed. 1983) defines "Bim-Bam clock" as "another name for Ting-Tang Clock." He defines a Ting-Tang Clock as "a clock that sounds on two gongs or bells (one of lower tone than the first as a rule) in ding-dong fashion at the quarters and at the hours. Two blows indicate the first quarter; four the half hour..." and so on. Yet DeCarle cites as his source an article in the 1941 _Horological Journal_.

That said, we shouldn't assume that "bim-bam" is an American term for "ting tang" -- that it's a horo-Shavian example of two traditions separated by the same language, or some such.

This is because the German term for the English "bim-bam" (or bim bam) clock, as supported by the Mauch & Mauch _Horologisches Lexikon_ (Band I - Deutsch-Englisch) is "bim-bam".

And the English term for the German "bim-bam", as supported by the Mauch & Mauch _Horological Dictionary_ (Volume II - English German) is "bim bam". And as might be expected, there's a connection.

To quote the (British) author Eric Smith, in his _Striking and Chiming Clocks: Their Working and Repair_ (1985:11):

"I would still call a clock 'striking' even if there were two or more bells or gongs, and even if the quarters were indicated by this same train. Such clocks -- mostly ting-tang on two bells -- seem best called 'quarter striking'. Some two-bell clocks strike only the hours -- a European Continental fashion which appeared in the late nineteenth centuty -- and these are familiarly known as 'bim-bams', one bim-bam being equivalent to one blow."

This "European Continental fashion" was mainly German. The bim-bam term is of German origins (cf. "Ach, du heiliger Bimbam!" = "hell's bells!"). And then became good Germlish. But it isn't cisatlantic by any means.

Regards, Duck
 

RJSoftware

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Pretty good info duck!

Do you think my clock is bim bam or petit sonnerie?

Remember it goes...

(bim bam can be replaced for ting tang, if so desired, just posted here for simplicity sake)

bim bam 15 after
bim bam bim bam 30 after
bim bam bim bam bim bam 45 after

And then on the hour it strikes both rods same time.

And now after Larry's post perhaps it is a Gilbert that does the Grand sonnerie.

RJ
 

zepernick

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RJ --

Must admit that by now, what with the Karmas and the Gilberts and the Norwegies and other various ding-dong variations -- with attendant slurpings of 'striking' and 'chiming' -- I've pretty much lost track of the track. Then too, as I'd suggested earlier, we're into terminological woods where our guides don't always and the choices aren't either/or.

For example my own understanding of what you seem to have is based upon a useful German differentiation. It's between so-called "dreiviertel" or "three-quarters" striking, and "vierviertel" or "four-quarter". Indeed, in trade advertisements for various German clocks you can often see a choice given among, for instance, half-hour (and hour) so-called bim-bam striking, 3/4, and 4/4 (this last usually with e.g. "Westminster" attached).

(That bim bam by the way can be seen used across languages in some
German ads, e.g. for Junghans movements in Krauss. So for a Nr. 203A
Junghans movement with descriptions in four languages we have:

14 Tag Halbstund-Rechenschlagwerk Bim Bam...
14 day half-hour rack-strike movement Bim Bam...
Mouvement a rateau 15 jours sonnerie heures et demies Bim Bam...
Maquina a sierra 15 dias soneria horas y medias Bim Bam...

With you putting in your own fly-specks where needed.)

But back to the 3/4 versus 4/4s. The 3/4 has striking on each quarter (i.e. 15, 30, 45) but at the full hour the hours only. There was variation in whether say, 15 after was just a ding, or a ding-dong. And as well whether the hours were just donged, dionged, or even danged. The 4/4s were striking on all four quarters, as well as the hours at the hour. One 4/4 type -- without the hours with the quarters -- was the petit sonnerie. The other 4/4 -- with the hours with the quarters -- the biggie.

So following this perspective what I think you have is a so-called dreiviertel or 3/4 beastie. As dongalongs they weren't uncommon.

Regards, Duck
 

Richard T.

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And now after Larry's post perhaps it is a Gilbert that does the Grand sonnerie.
Don't think so RJ. Could be wrong but I don't think Gilbert made a grand sonnerie striking clock. Grand sonnerie strikes one time on the 1/4 and repeats the last hour, two times on the 1/2 and repeats the last hour, three times on the 3/4 and repeats the last hour, four times and strikes the current hour. On Vienna regulators this is done on two separate spiral gongs of different tones. Quite often, during the night, I can hear my Carl Suchy & Sohne, Wien, strike and know what time it is. The clock is located at the opposite end of the hall from my bedroom. Called a "blindman's" clock by many.

Regards,

Richard T.
 
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RJSoftware

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Ah well. Another lotto ticket in the trash.
 

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