Biggest problem with eBay - How do YOU deal with it?

Wes

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My biggest problem with eBay is that you cannot leave a negative feedback under ANY circumstances.

The most recent is the Tremont I purchased from a seller in Arizona. It was not as described. After the seller saying they couldn't do anything about it, I filed a claim with Paypal. The seller then said they would issue the refund if I sent it back. They never did. They got the item back and still have not issued the refund. In fact, they put it on eBay a week before I sent it back to them. (The funny part is that they never even asked me to send it back - they relisted it not knowing whether or not they were actually going to have the item!)

Anyway, I am out the watch and the money if the Paypal disute doesn't go through.

If I leave a negative - I will just get the retaliation negative in return. So, what is the point of the feedback system?
This is why I shy away from eBay.... :rolleyes:
 

Wes

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My biggest problem with eBay is that you cannot leave a negative feedback under ANY circumstances.

The most recent is the Tremont I purchased from a seller in Arizona. It was not as described. After the seller saying they couldn't do anything about it, I filed a claim with Paypal. The seller then said they would issue the refund if I sent it back. They never did. They got the item back and still have not issued the refund. In fact, they put it on eBay a week before I sent it back to them. (The funny part is that they never even asked me to send it back - they relisted it not knowing whether or not they were actually going to have the item!)

Anyway, I am out the watch and the money if the Paypal disute doesn't go through.

If I leave a negative - I will just get the retaliation negative in return. So, what is the point of the feedback system?
This is why I shy away from eBay.... :rolleyes:
 

Jon Hanson

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FILE A POSTAL COMPLAINT.

BLAST THE SELLER'S NAME ON 149!
 

Bill B

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Wes. Do you have proof that you mailed it back? A deliver confirmation will do it. Then Paypal will take the money back for you.
 

Wes

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Yes I have del conf and insurance.

The point really is their feedback system is a joke. You cannot leave a negative without getting one in retaliation. How does that help anyone? It makes suspecting buyrs feel safe to buy from someone with lots of positive feedbacks. But those numbers really are not a reflection of the business practices or even performance of the seller.
 

Timebuilder

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Wes, I sort of agree with you about the feedback system. I has long been a topic on the eBay forums within the community. They know it is not perfect and they have been doing some work to improve it. Most recent is that anyone who hides their feedback is not allowed to either list or bid.

This is just the first step in many proposed changes they are working on. eBay is rather slow to make changes.

If a seller is doing what should be done, as soon as your payment arrives the seller should give you positive feedback. This is what I do.

Then if the buyer has a problem, such as yours, and you return the watch and get a refund, then you can leave a positive comment. But I realize it does not always work this way.

On the auction you won, there are two things that would have made me avoid it.

1. Fuzzy Pictures.
2. Must Use PayPal only.

Seems like sellers that have something to hide always have fuzzy pictures. And the the PayPal thing. I do NOT like paypal at all. It is next to impossible to get any refund through them.


Good Luck and I hope you get your refund.
 

Bill B

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FB system works OK , when used properly, not the best system but it is the one we have. You as seller leaves FB when deal is done, that is when the buyer is satisfied not when they pay, this way any problem can be worked out be for any FB is left and buyer does not have an advantage over seller. This method has worked well for me, it seems to keep buyers from just giving a neg before working things out.

As far as Paypal goes they have gotten money back for me several times without any problem for me. They also have protected me from a dishonest buyer by not charging me back for an item because I had proof of delivery.

As Timebuilder said I would not have bid on your auction because of bad pictures and description 7 jewel with screw down jewel setting? Runs great with bad mainspring? Your positive feedback on a bad auction was left after only 5 days that isn’t enough time to resolve anything or time enough for PP to investigate it, that takes 2-3 weeks.
 

Wes

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See, I have no doubt that I will get thh money back from PP. If it were a check or money order auction only, I wouldn't have bid. There is no recourse unless you pay with Paypal or a credit card.
I bid on the auction based off the sellers description and the 100% positive feedback. the fuzzy pictures were a plus because it kept other bidders away.
I feel for the person who won the second auction, as the MS arbor is broken.
However, the description is STILL wrong, as the SN is 1724, not 1774.....

But none of this is the point of that thread.

The point is that eBay's feedback system is a joke and is misleading. You cannot even leave the proper feedback the seller deserves. They shouldn't even have the negative as an option - because if you use it, you are basically hurting yourself more than the person who deserves it.
 

Wes

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As Timebuilder said I would not have bid on your auction because of bad pictures and description 7 jewel with screw down jewel setting? Runs great with bad mainspring? Your positive feedback on a bad auction was left after only 5 days that isn’t enough time to resolve anything or time enough for PP to investigate it, that takes 2-3 weeks.

Bill you aren't looking a the right auction here.

"eBay Link Removed"
 
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Fred Hansen

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But doesn't Paypal limit their payout on international transactions?

Fred
 

Wes

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Hey Fred,
I don't know about limiting their payout on International transactions. I normally buy in the States. I cannot remember the last time I bid on something out of the U.S. I usually don't even get things out of Canada unless absolutely necessary.
One thing I do know is that if you pay with a check or money order, there is no recourse at all!
 

Bill B

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Wes thanks for the link, I was looking at the second sale. I have neg people and not gotten a neg in return. You and I joined ebay at the same time and have the same amount of feedback. This is a newbe 7 months only 25 sales.
I would have told the truth and neg them, even if they did neg you, their neg would have hurt them a lot more than, theirs would hurt you putting their FB % under 90% a sure steer clear notice for most buyers. You can respond to their neg in your feedback and anyone who reads FB would understand.
Now because of your not neging them, nobody will know they are not the perfect seller they look like.
The ebay boards have discussed this and the idea of first neg wins, it never flew there.
Interesting that second buyer thought they got a good deal and were happy.
 

Wes

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I would have told the truth and neg them, even if they did neg you, their neg would have hurt them a lot more than, theirs would hurt you putting their FB % under 90% a sure steer clear notice for most buyers. You can respond to their neg in your feedback and anyone who reads FB would understand.
My wife uses that eBay account for some of her estate sales. So, a recent negative would adversly effect her - at least that is why she won't let me leave the neg. I see both sides of it, and that is why I think the feedback system doesn't work.


Interesting that second buyer thought they got a good deal and were happy.
Second buyer probably doesn't have a key, or hasn't tried to wind it up all the way. The MS arbor is broken.
 
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Bill B

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The neg would have been from a seller and not a buyer so the effect would have been minimal. Your problem with this seller is still a secret, so they can continue to dupe other unsuspecting buyers until someone has the courage to tell the truth. I can see why you can't, as this is not your account.
There was a correction to serial number on the 8th and you sniped it on the 15th nothing wrong with sniping ,I would have bid the same way.
I don’t know what is a MS arbor is. Would this been visible in a good picture?
 

Jeff Hess

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There are a lot of problems with ebay.

I buy a lot and sell a lot on ebay.

I do not leave negs to anyone who is willing to refund my money if they made a mistake in listing. I do not leave a neg to anyone who was ignorant in their descriptions but will refund.

Conversely, we do not neg back people if we make a collosal mistake. But mark my word, If someone tries to extort us buy saying they love the watch, love the price, do not want to return it but simply want a percentage rebate and THEN neg us we WILL neg them back if they refuse a full refund.

The feedback system, while not perfect, works pretty well if you take the time to read the feedback.

Most of the power seller forums I am one demand that you have 99 percnet plus feedback to be a member. So look for that guideline. And always pay by paypal or credit card. This protects you from not only those who misdecribe but also from those who are out and out fraudsters.

And yes, paypal DOES limit payouts. So if you are buying an expensive item, be careful. Better to pay with a credit card for expensive items.

Been there......
 

W.R. WoodWorking

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most sellers will say leave a postive feed back and Ill do the same. Thats hog wash!!! they are supose to leave a postive when I complete my part, paying for the Iteim won on there time frame. then I leave feed back when I recieve that Iteim won. The sellers arnt doing there part right and it needs to be corrected. I have receive a few things that wasnt right, but since they havent left me any feed back for my promt payment, I cant leave any kind of neg cause of there retaliation.
 

ged

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Hello Again, I have had one bad deal, I recieved good Feedback from seller for same day PAYPAL payment of £100 ($180 in Foreign money) and never recieved goods. After weeks of trying to get an answer from seller ,who claimed he had proof of delivery, but never provided it. I contacted Ebay they asked me to try and negotiate again with seller,which I did to no avail. I then asked ebay for a refund via Paypal and guess what. They,Ebay said they had no record of me making a complaint and told me I was time expired now on this deal so I lost my Money. On reflection I should have taken seller to the UK small Claims Court system. 50 Deals and one bad one, but that "one" was expensive. PAYPAL is convenient but don't count on getting your money back or on them being very helpful. Regards, Ged.
 

Jeff Hess

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ged,

Small claims is a very very stong tool.

Before I got married, I lost several 500 to 4000 dollar deals to fraudesters and scammers and deadbeats. I just shrugged it off.

After I got married, my wife started bringing these people to small claims court.

She has never lost a case. Unless we wait too long to take them to court. One fellow, a colleague, promised and promised and did not want the embarrasment of having a sheriff at his door with a small claims complaint.

So we waited. When we finally did file, it was too late. So be warned. Do it quickly.

Small claims court is a winner for us and total scarry downer for the bad guys.
 
R

Richard L

In over 300 eBay transactions I have had 2 that soured.. One as as buyer and one as seller. As a buyer I was eventual reimbursed by eBay for about 70% of the cost of the watch and the seller's account was closed. As a seller I was contacted by the buyer with a whole laundry list of complaints on a watch and demanding I issue him a discount on the watch. Of the 6 or 8 items on his list one was a minor oversight in the description, the others were nonsensical. I essentially sell on approval and do not require any reason for a buyer to return a watch to me and invited him to return the watch for a 100% refund including shipping and further would issue the UPS pickup. He refused to return the watch ... became nasty and irrational in his demand to discount the price to him. So I got the negative feed back and I responded with a rebuttal.

So my question is has it become common practice on eBay for buyers to use the reputation system as a means to extort after sale discounts on merchandise that they are otherwise content to keep?
 

Clint Geller

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This thread demonstrates that in most cases, you simply can't look at a person's feedback score and make a judgment about them without actually reading some of the feedbacks. An intelligent judge will recognize that there is a worm or two in every bushel of apples, and if one tastes a lot of apples, one is bound to find a worm sooner or later.

Thus when I see a seller who has several hundred, or even thousands of sales and a small handful of negative feedbacks, I consider it part of the unavoidable price of doing business with the public. As for the case of a buyer holding the seller's reputation hostage, in most (though admittedly not all) instances the unscrupulous buyer has far fewer feedbacks than the seller. Thus, the buyer, if he makes a regular practice of extortion, will damage his own reputation in an exchange of negative feedbacks far more than the prominent seller he attacked (3 negative feedbacks out of 20 concerns me a lot more than 3 out of 2,000), and he will soon have such a bad reputation himself that the wise will not accept his bids anymore. (On the other extreme, where the buyer has zero or only a few feedbacks, he may feel he has nothing to lose, and this is problematic. While I have only 38 feedbacks myself, thankfully all positive, I personally don't accept bids from sellers with fewer than 10 feedbacks without first communicating with them.)

Clearly the system is not perfect and intelligent judgment is still very much required on the part of persons who use feedback information. However, compared with, say, the insecurities of purchasing electronics from mail order houses, the ebay feedback system is a huge advance.
 

John Pavlik

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Mr.Geller has paraphrased it very well..Anyone that operates a small business quickly learns that there are all kinds of personalities in the world.. While 100 % customer satisfaction is a nobel goal the odds of it happening are somewhat slim.. So how to deal with it :???: Try your hardest, be honest, and accept that not every one has the same goal.. I have 1 negitve feedback on ebay with 1000 transactions.. A long time ago, I sent a $2000.00 cashiers check to a German fellow, and he claimed it never arrived..Called me a Deadbeat bidder, No I am NOT going to send you another one..
 

Jeff Hess

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john, Clint,

Well said.

Bottom line, you have use common sense when buying on ebay. jon rule of only buying when you can touch and feel the watch is a good one.

But if you use common sense when buying on ebay you can enhance your collection handily and with few problems.

Are there scammers? sure. But I have been to a few nawcc conventions were some of the characters were not so savory either. We just have to be careful.

Simply put. Buy from people who have a return policy, who have lots of pics, who have feedback over 99 percent and who acceprt paypal and credit cards. If you follow those simple rules, you are unlikely to get burned.
 

Jon Hanson

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or, buy from fleabay seller with a known to you personal recommendation!
 
N

netrider

Hello Wes
I'm New To the Board But a Ebay seller. I'm sorry this happended to you and others.
Your Right On the feedback problem, as a seller I sweat it everytime I send something out.

I told a friend if your unsure of a seller get two buyer IDs, One for buying from people you trust one for buying from people you do not know.That way placing a Neg feedback won't bother you.

That is problem no one dares leave feedback,
I got escrewed my self and bought on my seller ID, I left it alone as I did not want to tear up my rep, so now I buy on other ID. I've been burned for $179.00 $225.00 and $98.00 out of 7 buys.

Other thing is guys who know what they are doing in clocks and watches having another seller play stupid, and sell for them

Hmmm. How many are guilty of this easy buck thing.

This is to the guy with the 10 feedback thing,
I think we chase people off ebay by doing this a lose a long term buyer? just my thought.
As far as finding that worm its happended to me from sellers with over 1000 feedbacks.

I thought I would try to be on a board thing here.
Hope I did not offend anyone

Me I've learned to ask questions and if I do not get answer-I go on to the next thing.

I'll stop back some time
Thanks for letting me stop in
Net Rider
 

Modersohn

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I've sometimes seen people leave supplementary feedback. I've often seen it as rebuttal to a negative comment or to the defense appended by the other person in a transaction.

But sometimes, if I recall correctly, it seems that someone simply realizes that they were incorrect in their positive or negative FB. If so, there must be some mechanism for leaving a later comment after the first feedback.

Does anyone know if this is so?

Modersohn
 

Jeff Salmon

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Jeff and everyone:

I am not real comfortable taking returns on watches, as they are too easy to get damaged. I would be really afraid that someone would damaged by the buyer 'examining' the watch (i.e. taking it apart), and complaining later that is's broken or switching a part and then claiming that my watch is mis-represented. I've sold a few watches and have not had a problem--so far. I suppose, though, that the potential buyer is really skeptical about what is being described. there are quite a number of buyers who have probably been taken.
 

Jeff Hess

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Jeff,

Yes, we have had that problem.

Twice or three times peryear, some newbie buys a pcoket watch with a lever set (and described as such) then returns it with plier marks where they tried to force the crown up!

then they get angry with us that we will not take the return back. And neg us.

Jeff
 

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