Bezel Removal

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by JHorner, Mar 20, 2017.

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  1. JHorner

    JHorner Registered User

    Aug 26, 2016
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    I have a 2003 Seth Thomas Barrister Mantle clock with the #2115 Hermle quartz movement. The movement stopped working properly after changing the time, something I have read here is a common problem for this movement. I would like to replace the movement but cannot figure out how to remove the bezel to get access to the hands. The bezel is not hinged and I do not see any way to release it from the front or back. I have tried to simply pull it off from the front, but it doesn't budge. I am tempted to try to pry it off with a small screwdriver but I am worried about damaging the wooden face of the clock. I also worry that if I try to pry it I will crack the glass as it flexes. Can anyone tell me the correct way to remove this bezel?

    Thank you for your help.
     

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  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Jun 24, 2008
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    If there are no visible screws on the bezel, remove the batteries and check for screws there. If there are none there, the bezel must snap on. You are right about the bezel needing to be removed. The movement will not come out until you remove the hands and the nut behind them. Good luck.
     
  3. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
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    Have you tried turning the Bezel? Maybe it has pins or dimples & locking slots.
     
  4. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

    Jul 20, 2014
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    It looks to me like you might be able to remove the molding from the inside of the case that holds the movement and dial to the front .
     
  5. wow

    wow Registered User
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    I thought about that, Fitz, but the bezel must be removed no matter what else you do. Can't get to the hands and nut holding the movement in without bezel removal.
     
  6. JHorner

    JHorner Registered User

    Aug 26, 2016
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    There are two screws in the back, one behind each battery. If that means that the bezel snaps on, is removal done by prying it off from the front? Thank you.
     
  7. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Those two screws likely just mount the movement to the board. When I remove those bezels I put blue tape at several places around the bezel to protect the case and use a small screw driver to gently pry the bezel up bit by bit going around the edge. Never try to pry it off near the glass. I often use a plastic tip screw driver instead of metal if the bezel does not come off easily. That bezel material will bend easily and once bent it is pretty difficult to hide the damage.

     
  8. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Some more details would be helpful. Did the problem show up after turning the time forward this spring? What are the symptoms it is having?
    If the problem appeared in the autumn it should be noted that any quartz clock with music must be turned forward only. Turning the hands backward past the 12 will often ruin the little electrical trip mechanism.
     
  9. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Jun 24, 2008
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    First remove the two screws and see what happens. Since it is a wide movement, the screws may connect to tabs on the bezel.
     
  10. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    These are the units I like to use - they are "Keininger" but made in Taiwan - have great sound and are clearly marked that you can turn the hands either way. A lot of the older ones do not allow this and it is a common reason for failure if you do turn them backwards and they are not designed for that.

    Part number I-QQA20-00 and sold by several vendors.

    One issue to consider is that your current hands may not fit on this unit, so when you order it, order hands that match your current hands. You usually get one set of hands of your choice with the movement. This version includes a sweep hand.

     

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  11. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    Those Hermle movements are not available. I think that the almost identical Kieninger double "c" cell movements are gone too. Just saying ... You may be able to still find these movements somewhere. The smaller single "c" cell Seiko is readily available and works well. It is also less complicated to operate and works with all brands of batteries.
    If there are no plastic lugs (near the edge of the dial) that extend through the case, the bezel will pry off as others have already instructed.
    Willie X
     
  12. Randy Beckett

    Randy Beckett Registered User
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    Might be secured with double sided foam tape.
     
  13. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    I don't think the bezel has to come off. It looks like the wood strips hold on a piece of plywood and I think the dial is attached to that. If you get that plywood out, I think the whole movement, dial and hands are attached. Should be easy to replace. Just my 2 cents.
     
  14. JHorner

    JHorner Registered User

    Aug 26, 2016
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    The problem did show up after moving the time forward recently. Now, when I set the time the clock runs for a couple hours then stops. If I reset the time again, the same thing happens - it runs for a couple hours then stops. I can still hear the movement ticking, so it is running but the gears must have slipped out of place or something because the hands don't move. The chimes have stopped sounding. They had been silent for days, then worked again after I reset the clock yesterday. However the clock stopped again after a few hours, and when I reset the clock the chimes are silent.
     
  15. JHorner

    JHorner Registered User

    Aug 26, 2016
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    I removed the two screws. The movement wouldn't budge, the nut on the face of the dial must be holding it firmly in place. There is another thin piece of wood, the same size as the movement itself, between the movement and the clock case.

    Thank you everyone for your comments.
     
  16. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    You will need to remove the bezel, then the hands and the nut holding the movement to the dial. I have a commercial source for the I-QQA20-00 I showed above and for some other options depending on the length of the arbor that is needed for your clock that I can share with you in a PM if you like. I don't think an exact replacement for your movement is available so the mounting screw holes will probably not match and your hands may not fit on the replacement. You should be able to use the speaker in your clock, but you will most likely get a new speaker with a new movement.

     
  17. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    Did you replace the batteries? Weak batteries will cause this problem.
     
  18. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    When you get the bezel off, take of the hands and see if it will work without them. Does it always stop when the hands are opposed to each other like that?
     
  19. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    On the hands issue, these clocks have a soft plastic hour hand cannon/shaft. If the hour hand is to tight, over time it will pinch the soft cannon and stop the minute hand! There is also a clutch (intetnal) that allows you to sync the chime dropoff from the back without moving the movement. A nice feature but it gives a lot of trouble. The plastic parts are tiny as the movement is a sub assemply to what you see and only about 1 1/4" square. Customers really like these movements but overall a pretty crappy movement in my experience. To many design flaws. I would expect Hermle to come back with a similar movement in the near future. Hopefully it will be a better design with better quality control ... I can dream can't I?
    Willie X
     
  20. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
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    I like Fitz's idea. Remove the two battens and the entire mounting board should come out, dial and all.

    Is what I think.
     
  21. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    If that can be done, you end up with the bezel, the glass, the hands, the nut and dial all out of the case. But you still have to remove the hands and the nut to remove the movement - if in fact it needs to be replaced - so you would still have to get the bezel off. Unless I am missing something about how this is put together??

     
  22. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
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    It looks to me like the bezel is attached to the outer case, not to the mounting board. I think the board, with dial and movement, will come out leaving the bezel and glass in place.
     
  23. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Possible - and would be great if that is how it was done. I don't think I have seen one where the mounting board and dial was mounted in the case with glued in pieces though. And I don't see any screws to remove the trim boards. But hard to see from the pics.

     
  24. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Hey, Bang, if you look real close at the first photo, I think there is a brass nut behind the hour hand. I think the movement is mounted with that nut. If so, the bezel will have to come off in order to get to it.
    Wonder where the OP went. I'm curious.
     
  25. harold bain

    harold bain Forums Administrator
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    Perhaps he found out that he only needed to replace the batteries:whistle:
     
  26. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Just "fixed" a cheaper version of a similar movement for a veteran who came in about an hour ago. He had one battery in the wrong direction. Luckily his movement had a diode to prevent damage. New batteries in the right direction, a cup of coffee, a fine chat for an hour and he is happy. I am sure it is just a money issue, but when they make the + and - sign for battery alignment really small and from black plastic down in a battery hole inside a clock case it can be hard to see which way to put them in.

     
  27. JHorner

    JHorner Registered User

    Aug 26, 2016
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    No, still here. I did try several fresh batteries before posting here, so I don't think it is the batteries.

    I don't think that removing the mounting board can be done as being discussed. Those pieces that looked like wood strips are not strips, they are actually the back corners of the fluted quarter column and capital. Hopefully these pics show it a little better. The board the movement is mounted to continues up behind the curved top piece of the clock, and on the sides stops short of the 'strips' on the sides - which are actually the back corners of the columns, capital, and block that you see from the front.

    Thanks for the continued suggestions.
     

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  28. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Movement is attached to inside of the case. Dial/bezel attached to the outside. Bezel has to be pried off the dial. This can be difficult but once you get a little movement, continue around the bezel. At about the halfway around point they usually start to loosen.
    Willie X
     
  29. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
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    Well, so much for my suggestion. :(
     
  30. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    JH,
    Be sure to use the small screwdriver like a tiny crow bar, catching just the edge of the thin bezel. You can use a toothpick or a wood skewer as a fulcrum. Don't twist it, twisting will cause damage.
    Oh BTW, these movements won't work with Eveready batteries but this causes a no run condition, not an intermittent issue.
    Willie X
     
  31. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Unless that bezel is a strange size you should be able to find a replacement if you do damage it. You will probably have to buy the whole setup of the pan, glass and bezel and use just the bezel. I think Ronell and others carry them in a lot of diameters.
     
  32. BLKBEARD

    BLKBEARD Registered User
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    Take the clock to your local glass shop and ask if they can put a suction cup handle on the glass. The suction cup will have a handle and you can pull & wiggle without bending the bezel from prying or gouge up the wood.

    or you can buy a suction cup from harbor freight, but I can't comment on the quality or usefulness of suction cup from harbor freight.

    http://www.harborfreight.com/aluminum-suction-cup-lifter-92825.html
     

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