Better quality??? English fusee

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Picked this mvt with duplex escapement in a junk pile. Gold balance screws, diamond (?) endstone, visible plate jewels including one cap jewel. These aren't my area but looks to be better quality. Anyway, any info would be appreciated.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Greg,

These aren't my area but looks to be better quality. Anyway, any info would be appreciated.

This is a good quality movement, with endstones on the escape wheel, as many English duplexes were; they weren't a cheap thing to make, being very dependent on the accuracy of the escapement, and despite their technical inferiority to the detached levers and detents, were quite highly regarded in the first half of the 19th century. This one could well have been cased in gold, and it's unfortunate that its cap is missing.

The barrel setup ratchet and double tooth click on the barrel bar is often seen on Liverpool movements, and this one may have started life there, but was probably finished in Coventry or London.

There are several 'Charles Taylor & Son' entries listed in Loomes, one in Bristol, 1835-67, one in London, 1851-81, and one in
Paris, 19th century, so not much to go on, especially since the signature is probably for the retailer.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Graham,

Thanks for the info. Regarding the dust cover, it is present and is signed the same as the mvt.

Greg

 

[gmorse]

Hi Greg,

Regarding the dust cover, it is present and is signed the same as the mvt.

That's good, are there any marks inside the cap? I know John Matthews records all the cap marks he can find and tries to attribute them to makers.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Here are the marks. I can't make them out.

 

[John Matthews]

Greg - difficult to be certain but I think the mark is likely to be a poorly stamped J·S. This a mark I have recorded on caps from the 1850s & 60s on London finished movements signed by George Brock (1858) and Charles Frodsham (1860~)

There was a family of cap makers that worked in London from 1820 to the 1860's John, James & Joseph Shepherd. Also, somewhat earlier, a John Rowland in Clerkenwell during the 1820s & 30s.

John

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

John,

Interesting. Thanks!

Greg

 

[miguel angel cladera]

It is really interesting how well finished this watch is and that it is equipped with a balance wheel. i have one made for Arnold&Dent circa 1835.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Miguel,

...and that it is equipped with a balance wheel.

Do you mean that the balance wheel is compensated? That isn't unusual with these, I've even seen a freesprung example, which is much more unusual.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Bernhard J.]

Miguel´s watch has quarterscrews/-nuts on the balance wheel.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Bernhard,

Miguel´s watch has quarterscrews/-nuts on the balance wheel.

As far as I can see, so does Greg's, and they're all screws, not nuts.

Regards,

Graham

 

[miguel angel cladera]

Hi Miguel,


Do you mean that the balance wheel is compensated? That isn't unusual with these, I've even seen a freesprung example, which is much more unusual.

Regards,

Graham

It may not be unusual, but it does point to the appreciation some watchmakers had for the duplex escapement.

 

[Dr. Jon]

It is it dated 1835 and has a compensated balance wheel, which is original, it is very unusual. It is credible because Dent was one of the very few makers who put compensated balances on levers before 1850.

 

[miguel angel cladera]

It is it dated 1835 and has a compensated balance wheel, which is original, it is very unusual. It is credible because Dent was one of the very few makers who put compensated balances on levers before 1850.

Mine its a duplex escapement too

 

[John Matthews]

Many London finished watches with duplex movements from the 1830's onwards have compensated balances Prior to that there are examples that have Pennington's early screw type, e.g.George Allen #1905. He was working in Red Lion Square in the 1820s. Worth checking out the section on duplex watches in Clutton & Daniels description of the Collection of the Worshipful Company of Clockmakers.

few makers who put compensated balances on levers before 1850

Jon - I do not believe this is valid for London finished watches with duplex escapements.

John