Bergeon Bushing Machine Question

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Dave T, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I like everything about this machine, which I'm just getting used to. I bought it used and wondering if my drill bits are sharp. It does a great job, but it's like churning butter to drill through the plate! Takes quite a while and a lot of effort.
    Should I be drilling a pilot hole before I use the final bit?
    Are my drills dull?

    Just learning!
     
  2. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
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    It shouldn't take more than about 10 to 20 turns with light downward pressure. The single cutting-edge can be sharpened with a small flat stone. These stones are usually called slips. With the KWM bushing system you can usually go from worn out hole to a hole ready to press in the new bushing using only one reamer/cutter. Bergeon bushings are larger and depending on the combination you use, it might be better/easier to use two cutters. One to get the worn over hole centered and the second to give you the correct bore for the selected bushing. It takes practice to get good at it.
    Note, to check your work, use a concentric center scriber or a simple cross hair lightly scribed across the original holes center.
    Willie X
     
  3. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Nov 13, 2011
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    Do you know the trick about lightly filing the ends of your drill bits so they don’t catch and pull against the brass when they go all the way through?

    Haven’t actually done it myself, but I’ve read about it and seen some YouTube videos
     
  4. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    Dave,
    This tool uses special 'D' cutters to ream the exact size hole for the corresponding bushing. The machine is not made to use "drill" bits.
    Willie X
     
  5. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    You would have liked a KWM bushing machine better. Never have like the one you have.
     
  6. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I have searched for what these might look like and how to use them, but so far don't have a clue. Can you point me in the right direction. Sharpening tools isn't in my pay grade. :)

    Too late now! :(
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

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    This message board has probably a hundred threads about using a bushing tool. All clock repair books address the subject in some way. And, the cutters are available from alll the clock supply houses @ ~ $16 each. I would highly recommend that you buy KWM cutters for your Bergeon bushing tool. The #3 cutter will do about 95% of your bushing wotk. Eventually you will need the #2 and #4 KWM cutters.
    Willie X
     
  8. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
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    Dave, the Bergeon bushing machine is just fine. To avoid confusion the "cutting bits" for this machine are reamers and as already pointed out this machine is not designed to use drill bits. I usually begin reaming with the smallest reamer that will enter the hole and begin cutting, then progress to a larger reamer. Bergeon bushings as correctly pointed out have larger outside diameters than KWM bushings so the hole will need to be enlarged more which is best accomplished in two or three steps. Of course the reamers do need to be sharp. There are advantages and disadvantages between the Bergeon and KWM system. Your Bergeon is a well made machine and holds the reamers more tightly than a KWM type machine and the larger Bergeon bushings are better where there is extreme wear in a pivot hole or where someone has damaged the surrounding area. There is no reason to regret your choice. There is no basis to assume that you would "have liked a KWM bushing machine better", perhaps you would like a Ford better than a Chevy but either on will take you where you want to go. You can also purchase KWM size reamers and bushings for your Bergeon machine if you like. I will say that in my opinion, Bergeon reamers and parts are ridiculously expensive. A set of after-market replacement jaws is available for the Bergeon (also a bit pricy) but helpful when holding certain plates where the pivot hole is close to the edge.

    RC
     
    Rockin Ronnie likes this.
  9. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    That was exactly my problem. Don't know why I didn't figure this out. I was starting with the bit that fit the bushing.
    Love my Bergeon! :) About 10 turns and you're through the plate.
     
  10. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    I start out with the smaller cutter then go to a bigger cut when installing bushing ,with a KWM. Found that the bite is smaller and the cutter has less chance of jamming up and moving the work piece.
     
  11. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
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    It takes a little longer but you will soon realize that moving from a smaller reamer on up will simplify your task. BTW, I love my Bergeon but agree with RC, the bushings are pricey.
    Ron
     
  12. David S

    David S Registered User
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    Hi Ron, I haven't priced Bergeon bushings, but I have ordered KWM from Mark Butterworth and his prices were very reasonable as was his shipping charge to Canada. You could consult him for the Bergeon ones.

    David
     
  13. Rockin Ronnie

    Rockin Ronnie Registered User
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    Thanks for the tip.

    Ron
     
  14. breeze

    breeze Registered User

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    Hi Ron, I also use Bergeon with KWM bushings. Sometimes I run across a plate bushed with Bergeon bushings so my KWM bushings will not work due to the difference in the OD of the bushings. When this happened to me I bought the Bergeon bushing set #5488 to use as the hole was already opened, of course you may have to broach the pivot hole to fit your pivot, but you often have to do that with KWM bushings anyway. As an aside you may want to look into a set of end cutters for the times when the bushing you need to use are too tall for the plate you are bushing. This is the start of the rabbit hole, bushings, end cutters, broaches, oil sink cutters and on and on. Welcome to the club! I love it.

    Breeze
     
  15. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Good point. As mentioned, allows wider choice of bushings, when you might not have the exact one you want.
     
  16. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Wonder how many of you have bushed a bushing!. I replaced a bushing in this clock only to oversize it and still had a loose pivot. So... I found a smaller bushing and installed it in the first bushing. Seems to fit tight and looks like it will work fine. I'm sure this isn't standard practice, but it's my clock and more of an experiment and test to see if it would work.
    Waterbury 17.jpg The one toward the center for the warning wheel.
     
  17. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    If the first bushing is properly fitted and tight, you should be able to bush it with a smaller bushing........... under the right conditions. This isn't normally done if one just over-broaches a bushing, where the corrective action would be to just replace the bushing and broach more carefully. Double bushing is an option when for some reason the plate is so damaged that a standard bushing that fits the pivot is too small outside to cover the damaged area. Although it should not be an issue when using this bushing machine, if the hole into which the bushing is to be pressed is reamed oversize, then double bushing is an option. Care must be used when driving in the second bushing not to push out the first bushing. That can be accomplished if the second bushing is driven in against a blank stump. If bushings are selected that are a bit longer than the plate thickness the excess can be trimmed with one of these " pivot cutters"; Timesavers oe a "rose cutter" fitted to your bushing machine after which you will probably never be able to see that there are two bushings present.

    RC
     
  18. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks RC, That's pretty much what happened. I over-broached the hole first time around. And I'm running short on the proper size bushings. So, I found a smaller diameter bushing, installed it against the blank stump, as suggested to be sure I wouldn't drive it through or knock out the first bushing. Then I had to broach it considerably to fit, lost most of the oil sink as a result. But it fits very nice now.
    I'm going to re-order bushings as soon as I can figure out what sizes I can use most widely across the range. Whatever that is!
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    I usually do all of the bushing holes in one train, one plate at the same time. I can recall a couple of unfortunate memory lapses where I used the wrong reamer. In both cases, a double bushing solved the issue.
     
  20. MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

    MARK A. BUTTERWORTH Registered User
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    Thanks. Our Bergeon side bushings are priced the same as the KWM with free mailing in the
    US with min order. Small mailing charge outside the US.
     
  21. breeze

    breeze Registered User

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    I have made the decision to buy my bushings from Mark and here's why. I would have bet there was not one machine in the US to cut bushings and it turns out I would have lost that bet, Mark has one! I'm willing to bet (here I go again) that equipment was not made here, also I would bet that after it was installed a tech was sent to set it up and work the bugs out. I'm sure it's a complex machine. In this field we are a small community and I want to lend my support to as many people here as I can. Thanks Mark.

    Breeze
     

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