Bergeon 4854 CP lifter... not much use.

Discussion in 'Watch Repair' started by Roy Horrorlogic, Apr 19, 2019.

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  1. Roy Horrorlogic

    Roy Horrorlogic Registered User

    Mar 7, 2017
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    I bought one of these typically over-priced tools months ago after struggling with modified pin vices. I have yet to encounter a wrist watch with a CP > 1mm, the minimum size it fits.
    What do others use?
    Roy
     
  2. praezis

    praezis Registered User

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Presto, of course.
     
  3. Skutt50

    Skutt50 Registered User

    Mar 14, 2008
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    I also use a watch hands remover, type Presto.

    I had to modify it slightly to grip small CP, like the one you find on some ladies wrist watch movements........
     
  4. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Feb 5, 2007
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    Roy,

    Bergeon has sold a lot of useless tools. (think tweezer sharpener) Many are extremely useful, but...

    Roy Hovey used to have a collection of "useless tools foisted on the trade" that he would present in his classes.

    We are suckers for the "miracle" cure. We all fall for it at one time or another.

    FWIW, the money spent on the above mentioned sharpener would buy a lifetime supply of Dumont tweezers. Better yet, use bronze. No scratching and can be easily renewed with a file.
     
  5. Roy Horrorlogic

    Roy Horrorlogic Registered User

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    Thanks folks. The "Presto" type tool is what I started out with but little success.
    The Bergeon tool is too big for anything I'm handling. Even WW2 era watches. To advertise it as suitable for most wristwatches is plain daft. If it was equipped with a couple of different sized jaws it would be fine, since the principle seems quite sound.
    I'll go back to my Presto (actually a modified Chinese hand lifter.) Which may be the problem.
     
  6. Chris Radek

    Chris Radek Registered User
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    Apr 13, 2014
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    I would love to see that presentation! I bet the pivot "straightener" is in there.
     
    karlmansson likes this.
  7. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    You mean the seitz pivot breaker? It does have a good use though, but not at the cost of ebay. It has 1/2 sized hole jewels. When in Switz I bought a set of 1/2 size plates at the flea market in Geneva.

    Another useless tool is the pivot drilling attachment; one came with my Horia turns. Asked the head instructor if anyone knows how it works and he smiled and said "we are still working on that".

    One tool that looks needless but I find very helpful these days is the spring loaded truing calipers. Is not cumbersome and avoids fiddling with the lock lever.
     
  8. Samie Smith

    Samie Smith Registered User
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    Mar 22, 2012
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    I guess I was surprised to hear that the Bergeon cp lifter would not work,the reason I say that is I have a cp puller that looks like it in design but is marked cp and a paten number but at least 60 years old,, I know a friend of mine has one that is marked ce marshall but with same paten number I will post a item number from ebay that is like mine but mine is earlier it is metal without any plastic..,My camera has dead bat. right now but in the morning I will post some pictures of it..The one I have has never failed me it will remove cannon pinions frist time ever time from 18 size watch down to 6/0 size watches I use it ever day I used it today to remove the cp from a 10ax Bulova. I bought the one I have from a watchmakers estate 15 or 20 years ago.

    If someone walked in my shop today and offered me 200.00 for it I would say no real quick it is one of best tools I have ever bought if you folks used this one time you would say wow what a great tool
    There is one on ebay like mine but much later version item # 303130077158
     
  9. Samie Smith

    Samie Smith Registered User
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    Mar 22, 2012
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    Here is some pictures of the one I use,,i checked the dia of the cannon pinion of the Bulova 10 ax I used this puller on yesterday and it measures.039 mm .
    The pictures show it in the open and closed postion

    I can see from the pictures that mine has some wear but still works great.

    These show up on ebay several times a year sometimes in groups of tools or as a single item.

    DSCN6280 (2).JPG DSCN6284 (2).JPG DSCN6282 (2).JPG
     
  10. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Feb 11, 2005
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    The tool that Samie shows comes in two sizes. Samie has the (useful) pocket watch size. The smaller one (which is probably what Roy has) indeed has a quite small opening and is probably only useful on small bracelet watches.
     
  11. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    I have always used levers. This is also how the Swiss teach it.

    For chrono drive wheels we twist the wheel while the pallet is still installed and then lift it off with the D tweezer. Occasionally heat from a clean soldering iron is needed to expand the collet/pipe/hub.

    I have found the Presto line inferior to levers.
     
  12. praezis

    praezis Registered User

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    I wonder if this isn't dangerous: the wheel is only pressed on its bushing. I use the Presto for 5-prong wheels, easy and safe.
    But there are calibres with cocks that offer scarce space for the Presto feet, here Presto must be used with care.

    Frank
     
  13. DeweyC

    DeweyC Registered User
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    Frank,

    In my experience, no. Think about it. If the drive wheel is on so tight it can't be twisted, it is on too tight to be lifted off without risking damage to the jewel or pivot. Apply heat to expand the hub and twist again. Once free, lift off with either D tweezer or Pretso (I prefer the Boley D; and this is what we used in Switz).

    As an aside, in Switz. they laughed at me when I wanted a soldering iron. So, during the exam I did not ask for one on my 861. Broke the 4th pivot and the third pinion relying on the twist they told us "always" works. Cost me 5 points. Annoying, but I was not there to "prove" myself. Turns out they had the kids in the two year course prepared the watches and they failed to follow directions on all the watches; probably thought they were making a joke.

    I do maybe 7 Hamilton 37500s a month and a couple other chronos. Almost every 37500 has a chipped upper 4th jewel and I am running out. May have to start using brass there.
     
  14. Roy Horrorlogic

    Roy Horrorlogic Registered User

    Mar 7, 2017
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    As I said, Cousins (UK suppliers) list the tool as suitable for wristwatches. But minimum size CP is 1mm - and of course I didn't apply due diligence before purchase. An alternate set of jaws wouldn't be too much to ask.
    Speaking of over-priced non-functional tools...
    Now the hollow-grind screwdriver sharpener - that one sounds interesting when reflecting on the price of Swiss blades.
     

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