Cuckoo Bellows wires for this little cuckoo clock please?

[chockychocky]

Hi
I've just acquired this little cuckoo clock - I've got it to go just fine, but it's missing bits of the bellows and the wires attached to them. Does anyone else have a clock like this who could let me see some pictures of how the wires go please?

As you look at the back of the clock the left hand one is basically there with its wires (although it was glued shut), but there was only the base of the right hand one left, and no wires. On the side of the right hand one is a sort of roller type thing stuck in to it, and also another thing like a pin behind it.

It's one of those little clocks with a basic Black Forest movement but it makes a cuckoo sound as well, which is what the four lobed wheel is for at the bottom, which is attached to the minute hand. It also has a cuckoo, but that just rocks back and forth joined on to the verge by a wire, as the pendulum swings.

I've bought new bellow tops already -

I've attached a few photos to show what it looks like:


Thanks for any help. I'm pretty new to clock mending so any help much appreciated!

 

[shutterbug]

These cheap cuckoo's are definitely not among my favorites to work on! You need a wire that will lift both bellows, and release them at separate times. Notice how the wire is stepped. Have fun. Persistence will pay off There's another lift wire controlled by the propeller on the bottom that I don't show. You'll be able to figure that one out

 

[chockychocky]

Hi shutterbug, thanks for the pic and I'll see how I get on!

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Hi
It seemed like there were some more post with
good pictures of these single hit type clocks
but I don't know how to search for them.
They show how the wires work together.
There are a lot of cuckoos on the MB ( both
clocks and collecters, myself included ) and it
is hard to find
just this one type.
Tinker Dwight

 

[Tony10Clocks]

If you need to replace the wire, try a paper clip

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Tony thanks for your suggestion! Great minds think alike - that's what I've been trying -

 

[chockychocky]

I've hit a snag with this repair in that I've realised I can't get a sound out of the right hand bellows - that's just blowing through it without the top on. It fell apart as I removed the remains of the old bellow top, and I've glued it back together and there shouldn't be any leaks, but there's no sound at all. Inside there's a tiny slot in the wood above the hole in the side and I'm guessing that's all there should be. There aren't any screw holes or anything like that either -

But no whistle! Any suggestions please? Thanks -


BTW Thanks Tinker for your suggestion: I'll see if I can find some other pics. But the site's so vast it's tricky to know where to start!

 

[Mike Phelan]

I posted a thread years ago on how the wires are arranged on these things, and another on the construction of the pipes; if you narrow your search to me something should come up. If no luck I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Mike Phelan]

Here's one.

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Mike
Brilliant - thanks for that!

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Hi Mike
That was the picture I was looking for.
On the flute, Chocky, could you post a picture
of the side of the flute. One wooden flutes, there
is a small piece of wood that often fall off. A picture
would help and then I could talk about it.
Tinker Dwight

 

[ballistarius]

I've been always amazed by the ingenuity of these little things. They are low quality clocks, but they manage with just one going train and a few bent wires to move the bird and the bellows

I bought one faceless movement for one euro some time ago just for fun. I added a new face and painted it in gaudy colors to make it more attractive to the 'little ones'. I am trying to get my children involved with clocks and it is a good alibi to train them into winding up without any risk of serious damage...

Aitor

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Tinker
Thanks for your message and here's a couple of photos: I hope they're the right bits you mean!


In the second pic, the bellows top you see is on the other bellows, not the one which doesn't sound.

I've glued the right hand bellows back together, but inside there is just a piece of wood at the top edge of the bellows which has a very narrow slit in it, which opens just next to where the opening is to the outside. I can't see why it doesn't work when you blow at it.

I'm pretty sure it isn't blocked with anything, or stuck up with glue, and I was careful I thought not to leave any air holes when I stuck it back together.

Thanks for any help!

 

[chockychocky]

To ballistarius: Your clock is beautiful! I love the painted design:so colourful and all those extra cuckoos - really inspired!

As a real newbie to clock mending myself, I find these little clocks really very nice to learn on, because they are so simple, yet they really work and keep good time. Parts are easy to come by too, like the weights and chains. They're inexpensive too so it's not like trying to fix something either valuable or too complicated for a beginner.

I do have a 'proper' cuckoo clock which I bought from a car boot sale many years ago, but since being bitten by the clock mending bug (yes it is a drug isn't it!) I've also acquired a couple of other little Black Forest clocks. This was my first one, a rather battered one I bought for next to nothing on ebay -



I leant how to take it apart and I cleaned the wheels etc with some white wine vinegar I had (nothing but the best!). They came up in a lovely subtle shine. I was a fool and bent the wire that the pendulum hangs on, and then had to make it so the escapement worked again...but that's the way you learn, by messing it up first (NOOOOOOOOOOOO). But after a lot of trial and error - I didn't even know how the pendulum fitted on for example, it's going and ticks away very happily.

This other one I bought on ebay.de (German Ebay) -



It was complete with its original box and instructions (even in English too):



The German on the box lid means (loosely translated) 'A real working clock as a kit to put together and an educational toy'. Indeed it is - what a wonderful toy to have had! It was already assembled, but all it needed was a new pendulum as the old one had rusted up and wouldn't adjust, and as soon as I hung it on the wall it was going again. But the instructions are brilliant, and I also could have two clocks the same in front of me to compare how the wheels worked. It was then I realised I had two wheels in the first clock upside down and back to front, which explained a lot why the clock wouldn't keep going...............yes it's still being an educational toy!

 

[chockychocky]

@ MikePhelan

I ploughed through umpteen threads about bellows construction and found your post and diagram - thanks!

I also found some other information about the placing of bellows which I'll experiment with too -

AND now

Latest update - I've fixed the whistle! I took it apart again and realised there were gaps at the bottom edge. Fitted it together a bit more carefully and now I have SOUND! _

 

[ballistarius]

A good thing that you've fixed the pipe, chockychocky! A hole, a crack or an open joint and i won't whistle properly or at all!
I also bought one of those kits, but yours seems to be in better condition than mine. Those little timepieces are from the twenties-thirties. Lovely small things!
Thanks for your kind words on the shield I painted for my cuckoo. In fact, the design is not mine: I copied that on the shield of an XVIIIth cuckoo clock. It's just a cuckoo joke!

I am sure that you have understood how the bellows lifting system works but I had already taken these pics and it would be a pity not to use them...

0.The bellows are down
1.The star is starting to lift the lever connected to left bellow and the left bellow lifts the right one in its turn.
2. Both bellows are totally open. The lever is about to fall from the star. The base of 'Z' wire attached to the back of right bellow has leaned on the other horizontal wire protruding from right pipe. Also notice that another wire descending from right bellow has gradually lifted the bird's tail.
3.The lever has fallen from the star's tooth and the left bellow has closed by means of the lead weight inside its upper lid (coo!). The right bellow is still retained open for a short while by the 'Z' wire under it. The lead weight inside ist upper lid will eventually make the retaining 'Z' wire slide after a very short while. The right bellow will close (cuck!) and the bird's tail will descend abruptly.
0.We start again in fifteen minutes!

Aitor

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Aitor
That is wonderful - thanks for those photos. I've still been a bit puzzled about how the sequence works, but now I've got the bellows sound issue fixed and seen lots of pictures things are much clearer. My clock doesn't have a cuckoo like yours: mine's attached to the verge and swings back and forth with the pendulum. But I do have a very fine nail sticking out of the right bellows which at present isn't doing anything, and I think that this could be where the end of a spring might be, because I see that the right bellows wire is a spring, which I didn't realise. I need to bang in another nail to the right bellows! It's also so fiddly to have enough space to fit and bend the wires, but hey, I'll get there!

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Hi
When the left bellows lifts, there is the wire that
goes straight across to a pin on the right bellows.
Both lift at the same time.
Just as the maximum height is reached,
The swinging trigger, on the left side of the right
bellows, swings over the short rod attached to the
top of the right flute.
As the two start to fall, the trigger holds the
right bellows.
As the left bellows just finishes, the wire rod
that lifted the right bellows pushes the trigger
off the short wire from the right bellows and
the right bellows actuates.
Right and left are from the back of the clock.
Tinker Dwight

 

[ballistarius]

Many thanks, Tinker, yes it is the horizontal lifting wire the one that pushes the trigger 'Z' wire out of the rest and allows the right bellow to close.

Chockychocky, I didn't realize that your bird was a swinging one connected to the escapement. (I own a small BF clock of the same period with two gnomes sitting on a seesaw balancing with the escapment too, that was the first one I bought for my daughters to become acquainted with clocks) . The missing wires on you clock went away with the top of the right bellow. I also notice that thecavity for the lead weight on the left bellow appears empty.

Aitor

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Hi
On Aitor's clock, the weight of the bird helps to swing the "Z wire" back on the lower pin.
You'll need to make the wire's balance such that it swings back without the birds weight,
when lifted to the top.
Tinker Dwight

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Aitor and Tinker
thanks for your messages and I'll see what I can do about these issues! At the moment I need to work so will have another go at the clock soon - Thanks for all your help and advice.

 

[flatlander10]

Hello all,
Not meaning to change the thread.
I am working on another on of my Mother-n-Laws clocks and she has a novelty movement such as the one's that are displayed in this thread.
I did a search on most of the online clock parts vendors to no avail.
Any idea as to where I may find a replacement new or working used?
The pivots on the old one are worn oblong. Learning how rebush would be great but the cost of learning and tools would be not so much.
I'd hate let my Mother-n-Law down on this one because I haven't failed as of yet with her 15 other cuckoo's.

Thanks,
Flatlander10

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Hi
I've seen a couple of clock/movements over time on ebay but
not every day. More like every month or so.
Still, one from ebay may be just as trashed as the one you
have.
One saving thing is, that like other cuckoos, these are
fussy enough on setup that many give up on them
and put them in the attic with little wear. If bought
as a movement, it is usually really bad.
Tinker Dwight

 

[chockychocky]

I've bought all three of mine on ebay: I suppose it depends where you live, but here in England there are a few for sale - you have to search for 'black forest clock' and that's where you'll find clocks with these simple movements. They're all mixed up with the better quality Black Forest clocks of course, but after a while you can get an idea for what to look for. Here's one which has just sold today on ebay.uk (I hope you can see the link)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wonderful...170806618221?pt=UK_Clocks&hash=item27c4de286d

If you do like I did and look on ebay.de (German ebay) you'll find a lot more, people selling their grandad's things for example. I know some German and Google translate is excellent!

PS Update on the clock on this thread....following all the great advice I've been given, I now have a clock with two bellows, a lot of wires and a 'cuck': the 'oo' is still pending, although I've got my head around how the wires work and they are in place. Just need a bit of tweaking and I'll be there...so thanks all for your help!

 

[shutterbug]

Yep - just look for a clock with a propeller!

 

[chockychocky]

Another reason why people may put these clocks away without much use is the VOLUME of the ticking - boy are they loud! I have the three of them in my hall, plus a cuckoo, a mantel clock and a verge/foliot wall clock nearby, all ticking away right near to each other. It drives you quite insane after a while :cyclops:

 

[flatlander10]

Well, I have three cuckoo's going in my house, one being a Chalet with a music box an excellent purchase on ebay. That one I use as a learning tool, for learning how to set up
the music box triggers. That worked very well seeing that a quarter of my Mother-n-Law's clock are with music boxes. The third cuckoo is one I built from scratch.
The forth cuckoo in in storage fo now. (ran out of wall space.)
The last clock that my wife could not resist was one of those rhythm clocks.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep looking including ebay.

P.S. My avatar shows exactly where I'm from

Flatlander10

 

[chockychocky]

Although it's true what shutterbug says - if you need one like mine you need one with a propellor! That ebay one I showed you just has the same movement, but no prop -

 

[flatlander10]

Yep, the prop it is. otherwise no cuckoo.
Wouldn't make Great Grandma happy now would it.

I was thinking if I'm hard up enough, I may try the dimple the pivot hole.
Got nothing to lose.

When I got this clock, I was also intrugued by the genius of how the whistles are triggered.
I'm amazed at the ingenuity.

Thanks,
Flatlander10

 

[blueloon]

I've got one of those little clocks, too. It was different at first to hear the cuckoos on the 1/4 hour, but I hardly even notice it anymore.


Now I've taken in another one in a lot worse shape to repair for a friend. Like yours, chocky, it is missing most of the wires and the bellows tops. I'm sure it will be a challenge to get all of the wires in the right places to do what they're supposed to do, but at least I have a working one to use for reference.

 

[chockychocky]

Hi bluloon, thanks for sharing your clock photos! It's amazing how the bellows get so destroyed isn't it...perhaps people have enough of listening to the cuckooing! I really love these little clocks - they are so simple mechanically, but also incredibly ingenious, and endless in their variety of designs. And they're such fun! really sweet designs I think.


I've made my clock cuckoo now: it just needs a bit more adjusting to get the timing of the sounds right. It's been a fascinating learning experience, to make the wires work as they should.

There still a couple of issues in that the bellows don't come down fast enough/heavily enough to make a sound on their own, so at the moment I have 2 £1.00 coins on each bellows to add some extra weight. Interestingly, that's about 4 times what the clock cost (99p!)

The other thing is that the clock keeps adding in extra ticks as the bellows open up - is it fluttering? I have a very heavy weight on the clock to keep it going: I think I have some extra friction somewhere in my precision timepiece -

 

[chockychocky]

Something occurs to me - I've noticed that my clocks go far better once oiled properly - probably obvious to those who know about these things, but for me it was the difference between one of them going and not going. It had been ticking fine and then it decided it wouldn't bother any more. I just oiled the pivots where the wheels fit in the holes in the little frame, both sides of the clock, with a tiny bit of 3in1 oil on a little paintbrush. The clock was clattering rather and then it sounded much smoother after oiling -

 

[harold bain]

I suppose if you could compare running your car's engine without oil and with oil, you would also see a considerable difference. Pretty much anything mechanical benefits from cleaning and oiling as basic preventive maintenance, as opposed to allowing it to run til it stops because it's worn out, and then replacing parts/bushings.

 

[blueloon]

It is amazing how these little clocks get destroyed -- all clocks that I've seen damaged for that matter. I guess we truly do live in a "throw-away society". I, however, refuse to give up on these things. This little clock that I've taken in to repair not only needs new bellows tops and wires, but a complete teardown and cleaning/repair. Looks like something was living in the house with the works and made quite the nest. The movement doesn't work at this time but I won't know what's really wrong with it until I get it torn down and get all of the fuzz, etc. out of it.

I need to get to work and finish my backlog of repairs because the flea market season will be starting again soon and I'm sure I'll find some more poor, abused clocks to rescue. As long as there's still room in the house...

 

[chockychocky]

Hi
I just thought I'd post a couple of photos of the mended clock, in case anyone else meets one of these. I haven't seen a cuckoo clock with a single train with a cuckoo attached to the pendulum, rather than going in and out like they usually do -

After a LOT of trial and error I have got this clock to work. It cuckoos on the quarters and the cuckoo bobs backwards and forwards attached to the verge/pendulum.




There is a wire from the propellor on the movement which is attached to the left bellows. As this rises, there is also another wire which goes across to the right bellows and lifts that as well. This wire has a step down and up in it: it came with the clock like that, and that is useful, although fiddly, for delaying the time when the right bellows falls.

Instead of there being a wire which hooks round the cuckoo, there is a counterweight on a wire going towards the front of the clock: I have used 2 metal nuts. There was a metal spike coming out of the original bellows which is still there, and this wire is set above that. The whole thing swings pivoting on the screw in the side of the right bellows. The wire down from the screw down to the rear of the clock gradually raises up as the minutes go by, raising up against a little roller which was also part of the original bellows: when it gets up to a certain point there is a step in the wire and it sits on the roller.

Once the wire falls from the star, the left bellows closes (cuck!), the wire across to the right bellows falls and very quickly afterwards knocks the wire attached to the right bellows off the roller so the right bellows closes as well (coo!).

Golly that took some working out! Apart from working out how it was supposed to work the adjustment is very exact, especially with the cuckooing. I also managed to do the hands up too tight so the clock kept stopping, which was another puzzle to solve, and a bit of a confusion -

The wires are a bit bent on the clock because I had to bend things so many times to try stuff out: I got through several different wires in fact. The right bellows suffered a bit in my efforts as well, but it's still intact and working. There are some extra lead weights on the bellows because it wouldn't sound without them, and a 500g weight on the clock as it needs that to keep going. When the clock cuckoos the pendulum and cuckoo does an extra hop skip and a jump just to add to the fun!



Thanks for everybody's help and photos and suggestions: it's all been so useful, I couldn't have done this without your advice!
Here's what it looks like now -

 

[blueloon]

Good job! Glad you got it together and running.

 

[chockychocky]

Hi
Thanks for your comment, that's much appreciated. I do like a puzzle to solve! It sounds like you do like me, get hold of poor old clocks and see how you can make them go again - my latest acquisition is a Zaandam clock which also looks like it's had something living in it, looking out the little windows maybe? So much dust and mess!
Hey ho another puzzle!

 

[blueloon]

I love a challenge also, but I try to look over the clocks that I pick up to make sure they aren't too far gone and "over my head" needing repairs. There is a repair shop not too far away, but i try to use that as a last resort. I'll put an "after" picture of that little propeller clock I'm working on now when I get it done.

 

[chockychocky]

I agree, I can't take on anything too complicated because I have neither the knowledge, skills or tools required to fix anything too complex. But you start small and learn as you go along, and I've learnt an awful lot these last few months.
I look forward to seeing your clock when it's done - good luck!

 

[matthiasi]

I would never use paperclips for a repair like this though.
Better use would be the so-called "music wire" found in most hobby stores.

 

[chockychocky]

Hi Matthias
No I didn't use a paperclip in the end - it was an idea I had in the beginning, just to experiment with really. I bought some bellows wires and bent them into shape, and also I had a spare pendulum wire: I did need a few as I broke wires testing out all the different shapes I tried.

 

[blueloon]

I finally got back to this little clock and got the works cleaned, put together, and running on my test stand before I put the front of the case back on. It took right off running after i got all of the fuzz (nesting material for something) out of it and cleaned it up. Some trial and error with the wires on the bellows tops -- both bellows tops were missing, so all of those wires were gone. I still need to get a new pendulum for it (I swiped one from one of my old ones to test it) but it hasn't stopped running since I started it several hours ago.

I do, however, have a question about the hands. On every clock that I have, when you advance the minute hand, the rest of the works moves with it. When I advance the minute hand on this one, only the hands move. It does not advance the "propeller" to make it cuckoo. The hands move when it runs, just like they are supposed to, so I know it's "connected". What am I missing? This seems to be the only thing wrong (or different) with this thing now and then I can put it back together and send it home. Anybody got any ideas?

 

[chockychocky]

Hi bluloon
I'm glad your clock seems to be working again quite easily. I've had another look at my clock: about the hands - when I turn the hands on my one the prop turns too and so the cuckooing works as well. The prop is fixed very firmly on the end of the shaft which has the big wheel that the chain goes round with what looks like a tiny circlip and doesn't spin freely -

 

[shutterbug]

You probably have a clutch slipping in the motion works. I'm not sure the clock is worth all the time you've invested in it so far. I'd be real tempted to wait for the cuckoo call, set the hands to match (one of the 15's), and leave it alone. However, if you want to fix it you'll have to take it apart again. Sorry

 

[blueloon]

Thanks for the replies. I will probably go with Shutterbug's suggestion (which is what I've done so far with this to test it) and just set it to a "15" and let it go. The works don't come apart easily -- the plates are held together by flat brass pins that go thru the 4 corners and are bent slightly to keep them together (no nuts). It was a pain to get it apart and even more to get it back together without pinching anything (including my fingers). I still have a little more cosmetic work to finish on the front and then I'll post a picture. Thanks again!

 

[chockychocky]

I look forward to seeing a photo, good luck with getting it all done!

 

[blueloon]

I finally got this thing finished and hanging on the wall for final adjustments before it goes home.


It was in pretty rough shape, missing a trim piece on the front, most of the wires and bellows tops, and full of "fluff" from something nesting in it.



I made another "flower box" like on the top section to go under the bird and finished the repairs inside. Went through several tries with the "Z" wire and finally ended up putting some split-shot on the wire under the bird's tail to balance it so the "Z" part of the wire would catch the other wire. The split-shot also keeps the bird tail centered so it doesn't catch on the nails between the bellows tops. Don't think I want to mess with one of these things again for a while. Quite the PITA.

 

[chockychocky]

Good news about your clock and well done for fixing it! I feel the same: one of these is quite enough: you spend such a lot of time fiddling about getting those wires and the timing of their action just right. But it's a challenge! I don't know about you, but I don't like to be defeated, and it's nice to make things go as they should -
It's a very pretty clock too!

 

[blueloon]

Thanks for the reply, chocky. I am just like you -- I don't like to let one of these things beat me either. I spent waaaaaay too much time getting this thing together, but gave up on getting the hands to move the propeller. The friend who owns it is just going to have to live with it unless she wants to pay someone else to fix that (I only charge her for parts). It runs, it cuckoos, it keeps good time, and it looks better than it did when I got it. I'd say it was a success.

 

[chockychocky]

Hi bluloon
I know what you mean about these clocks too - the one I worked on is the trickiest one I have ever tried to do anything to and it still is pretty unreliable timekeepingwise, but hey it cuckoos as it should, it runs, it's a pretty clock and it's fun to have right by the front door! It didn't do anything when I got it so I'm pleased too!
All the best and good luck with your next clock