Beginner/general question about not running ship clocks

[spaine]

Hello everyone. This is my first post so please go easy on me.

I have begun collecting ships clocks and really love them. I have a few that run well and keep good time and a few that do not. The two of them that are not running both have the same symptom - they do not run under their own spring power but if you give them even the slightest encouragement they will begin to run. For example, if you nudge the escapement wheel (I'm sure there is a name for this), it i will run for a few seconds but slowly come to a stop. Or, if you give a little extra rotational push on one of the large gears, it will begin to run, but again, it will stop if left to its own power.

I am hoping that there is just a little too much friction on the gear train and I plan to start with a good cleaning (or at least the best I can do) followed by applying new oil. I did purchase good clock oil (I hope synthetic is the way to go).

The reason I am embarking on this instead of taking it to a professional is that There are only 2 clock repair persons in my area and both have flat out said if its not a grandfather clock, it snot worth their time. Neither of them will provide any type of support.

I thank you for any help you can provide.

 

[shutterbug]

Your clock is displaying classic symptoms of lack of power, which is almost certainly from wear in the movement. It will need to be taken apart, cleaned, repaired and reassembled. Do you think you're up to the task? Ships bells are not a good candidate for a first timer.

 

[Willie X]

Sounds like the door is wide open for a new clock repair person in your area ...

The best way to start learning about clock repair is to read lots of books and then practice what you learn on your clocks, then buy more clocks, etc. etc. etc.

If you have a good aptitude for machinery and a lot of patience you can probably be pretty good at repairing clocks in a few years.

Willie X

 

[R. Croswell]

Hello everyone. This is my first post so please go easy on me.

I have begun collecting ships clocks and really love them. I have a few that run well and keep good time and a few that do not. The two of them that are not running both have the same symptom - they do not run under their own spring power but if you give them even the slightest encouragement they will begin to run. For example, if you nudge the escapement wheel (I'm sure there is a name for this), it i will run for a few seconds but slowly come to a stop. Or, if you give a little extra rotational push on one of the large gears, it will begin to run, but again, it will stop if left to its own power.

I am hoping that there is just a little too much friction on the gear train and I plan to start with a good cleaning (or at least the best I can do) followed by applying new oil. I did purchase good clock oil (I hope synthetic is the way to go).

The reason I am embarking on this instead of taking it to a professional is that There are only 2 clock repair persons in my area and both have flat out said if its not a grandfather clock, it snot worth their time. Neither of them will provide any type of support.

I thank you for any help you can provide.

Attempting to clean a clock without taking it apart is largely a waste of time. When you say, "ship's clocks", do you mean ship's bells clocks that strike the watch bells, or just bulkhead clocks that display the time? Some pictures would be nice.

RC

 

[spaine]

Wow, I cannot believe I’ve had replies already. You all are on it! I’m not at home right now so I’ll follow up with pictures later today (hopefully). The clocks are ships bell clocks. The two in question are a Schatz and a Howard Miller. The Schatz is the larger sized one (7” dia?), much like the Royal Mariner. The HM is a smaller size, maybe 5-6”?

I do consider myself to be mechanically inclined. I was even a machinist for a period of time before switching careers, so mechanical workings intrigue me.

I will start with a tear down and clean and go from there.

 

[spaine]

Here are a couple of photos of the Howard muller clock I’m not sure what angles or shots would help so please let me know.

 

[Willie X]

That's a common Hermle movement. Not easy to repair and expensive to buy. Willie X

 

[spaine]

Well that’s a bummer. I guess I’ll just do what I can.

 

[R. Croswell]

Hello everyone. This is my first post so please go easy on me.

I have begun collecting ships clocks and really love them. I have a few that run well and keep good time and a few that do not. The two of them that are not running both have the same symptom - they do not run under their own spring power but if you give them even the slightest encouragement they will begin to run. For example, if you nudge the escapement wheel (I'm sure there is a name for this), it i will run for a few seconds but slowly come to a stop. Or, if you give a little extra rotational push on one of the large gears, it will begin to run, but again, it will stop if left to its own power.

I am hoping that there is just a little too much friction on the gear train and I plan to start with a good cleaning (or at least the best I can do) followed by applying new oil. I did purchase good clock oil (I hope synthetic is the way to go).

The reason I am embarking on this instead of taking it to a professional is that There are only 2 clock repair persons in my area and both have flat out said if its not a grandfather clock, it snot worth their time. Neither of them will provide any type of support.

I thank you for any help you can provide.

I would advise that you arm yourself with a copy of Striking Clock Repair Guide by Steven G. Conover, which covers in some detail the ship's bells clocks that you mention. Putting one of these back together isn't just a matter of putting all the parts back in the right place. Aside from the delicate hairspring and balance wheel, the difficult thing is setting up the timing and relationships of various parts in the strike train with the strike hammer(s). On the hour, every strike begins with two hammer blows on the bell. On the half-hour it always ends with a single blow of the hammer(s). Some use a single hammer, and some use a pair of hammers, and every maker uses their own complicated method to "arrest" (or prevent) the second hammer drop ending the half hour strike. These movements have almost nothing in common, so if you learn one, you will need to start over and learn the next one. This is especially true going from something like a Schatz that has two hammers to Hermle with a single hammer. If possible, study each clock's strike train before you take it apart and understand what makes it work.

RC

 

[spaine]

I actually have a copy of that book and have looked it over. I picked it up because my small Schatz ships bell clock is occasionally going crazy and had rung up to 30-some bells one time.

 

[R. Croswell]

I actually have a copy of that book and have looked it over. I picked it up because my small Schatz ships bell clock is occasionally going crazy and had rung up to 30-some bells one time.

That mini Schatz is a single hammer movement and is a little weird. If it has worked properly before and has recently started not shutting off, I would look for the rack hook lever being sticky on its post. I believe it depends on gravity to drop after the rack is gathered to shut off the striking. A good cleaning may be all that's needed.

RC

 

[spaine]

Thanks for the direction, RC! I do have to ask though, what is a rack hook lever? I’m going to look it up and see if I can figure that bit out.


Also… after a GOOD cleaning with brake cleaner (suggested for cleaning and breaking up the old oil), then new good quality oil on all of the points of interest, and it is RUNNING! It struggled at first but the longer it has been running the longer it runs each interval. It has currently been running for the past 45 min or so and still going. I do have it out of its housing and laying “face side down” on its housing so it isn’t sitting on any moving parts.

 

[R. Croswell]

Thanks for the direction, RC! I do have to ask though, what is a rack hook lever? I’m going to look it up and see if I can figure that bit out.


Also… after a GOOD cleaning with brake cleaner (suggested for cleaning and breaking up the old oil), then new good quality oil on all of the points of interest, and it is RUNNING! It struggled at first but the longer it has been running the longer it runs each interval. It has currently been running for the past 45 min or so and still going. I do have it out of its housing and laying “face side down” on its housing so it isn’t sitting on any moving parts.

The rack hook (pin) is the ratchet mechanism that keeps the rack from dropping back down after each tooth is gathered by the gathering pallet. Once the rack is fully gathered the lever drops off the end of the rack and stops the striking. If the rack hook is stuck on its pivot, it will not "hook" the rack and when the tooth is gathered, it will just drop back and be gathered over and over again until the spring runs down or it catches.'

I do not approve of cleaning without disassembly, but it's your clock. Based on the symptoms you described, I recommend that you at least remove the "E" clip holding the rack hook on its post and remove the rack hook and clean the post and the hole in the rack hook collet.

RC

 

[Kevin W.]

Spraying brake cleaner on a clock movement is in now way cleaning a movement. Has to come all apart to do a proper job. Short cuts will come back and bite you every time.

 

[spaine]

I appreciate all of your input. Like I originally said, I am completely new to this and just looking for help.

The clock is still running but when I wound the spring for the bell, the clock began to intermittently stop again. I’m going to go forward with more disassembling and a deeper clean. Was just trying the least invasive options first - definitely not trying to short cut. Just nervous.

Thank you for the picture, RC. I will clean that post and collet. Is that a source of drag in these clocks? I ask because it seems like that is what’s happening with it. It just needs a little bit more power like something is bogging it down.

Hopefully I can find some time tomorrow to take lots of pictures and begin disassembly.

Thanks again

 

[gmorse]

Hi spaine,

The amount of power being delivered to each wheel in a clock train diminishes the further it is away from the mainspring, and the speed increases. By the time it reaches the escapement, (the platform in your examples), the available power is only a fraction of where it started and the wheels are turning much faster. A small problem with a component on the platform can easily stop a clock.

On better quality platforms the pivots will be running in jewels and the balance itself will have endstone jewels as well, intended to provide low friction support for the balance staff. They also form tiny cavities over the hole jewels intended to hold oil in place. Unfortunately they're almost impossible to clean without totally dismantling them and they're often left alone by clock repairers for that reason.

If you aren't familiar with working on watches, (which is effectively what these platforms are), it's very easy to damage delicate parts such as the balance spring, or lose other small parts, so getting to know a good watch repairer can be useful.

Regards,

Graham

 

[R. Croswell]

I appreciate all of your input. Like I originally said, I am completely new to this and just looking for help.

The clock is still running but when I wound the spring for the bell, the clock began to intermittently stop again. I’m going to go forward with more disassembling and a deeper clean. Was just trying the least invasive options first - definitely not trying to short cut. Just nervous.

Thank you for the picture, RC. I will clean that post and collet. Is that a source of drag in these clocks? I ask because it seems like that is what’s happening with it. It just needs a little bit more power like something is bogging it down.

Hopefully I can find some time tomorrow to take lots of pictures and begin disassembly.

Thanks again

* when I wound the spring for the bell, the clock began to intermittently stop again. unrelated events

* I'm going to go forward with more disassembling and a deeper clean. I suggest not "deeper cleaning" but complete disassembly and cleaning but if you are not comfortable with disassembling the platform escapement leave it for now and consider taking that part to a watchmaker.

* definitely not trying to short cut. Just nervous. Very understandable, these make me nervous to, and I have one on the bench now. If I'm lucky the owner will not want to spend what it will take to restore it.

* I will clean that [rack hook] post and collet. Is that a source of drag in these clocks? ........ it seems like It just needs a little bit more power like something is bogging it down. No, the rack hook is not part of the going train and does not use any power from the time side. Your loss of power is almost surely due to friction in the going train. That friction is due to wear, an accumulation of old dried-up oil and dirt in the pivot holes, and lack of lubrication. Don't forget the mainsprings, these need to be removed, cleaned, and lubricated. Unfortunately, that is not an easy task without a spring winder tool. Attempting to remove the springs by hand risks damage to the springs (primarily coning) and personal injury.

Once you have this movement apart and clean, each pivot and pivot hole should be checked for wear. It is a fool's game to just reassemble a movement with badly worn pivot holes and hope for the best.

On a clock like this, your best indicator of whether you have enough power is the movement of balance wheel. If everything is healthy the total range of rotation should be 360+ degrees. Less than 270 degrees total rotation and the clock will likely have issues, somewhere between 270 and 180 degrees you will have trouble keeping it running and keeping time.

RC

 

[spaine]

You all are awesome. Thank you for the support.
Is the balance wheel the one on the escapement?

I dove into it this morning and as carefully as possible I began disassembling. I cleaned each part as I went and took pictures of each step so I can reverse the process.

I do have one question though. I missed seeing what looks like one shim. I’ll post a picture of it. I found it when cleaning the plate in the picture. If anyone has a guess as to where it went, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[spaine]

Ok I figured out where that shim went and reassembled the clock.
It is still having the same issue. It will only run for a short amount of time. I’m not sure what else to do. I think it just have a work out clock I suppose.

 

[Mike Mall]

If you look in the "Hints and How-to's" section you will find a lot of info. The thread below is found there.

Here's the key to talking shop here. A platform escapement is shown in #7

Clock Parts Terminology •

WHAT'S HERE SO FAR? (Note: Despite what it says elsewhere, David LaBounty originated this thread, following a request by another member.) (Table of Contents...numbers are Post #'s) 2.Clock Parts Terminology • 2. Chiming clock movement 3.Count-wheel strike elements 4...

mb.nawcc.org

 

[R. Croswell]

Ok I figured out where that shim went and reassembled the clock.
It is still having the same issue. It will only run for a short amount of time. I’m not sure what else to do. I think it just have a work out clock I suppose.

I get the feeling that you may be rushing through this too fast and expecting too much. This picture is the platform escapement like you have. We need a little more information.

* Did you polish the pivots and if so, how?

* Did you inspect the pivot holes under magnification? Were any of them "egg shaped? (Yes, we really need to know.)

* Did you remove the springs from the barrels? If so, did you clean they and how did you lubricate them?

* The holes in the spring barrel and the barrel cover are the bearings for the main arbor (shaft). These tend to wear. Are they worn?

* Did you disassemble and clean the platform balance assembly?

* When you put the clock back together, how many degrees of rotation does the balance wheel make? We need to know.

I assume that you removed the platform balance assembly from the movement. Note the small pinion under the escape wheel. There is typically some slop in the mounting holes. The depth of meshing of this pinion with the driving wheel (gear) is critical. Too close or too loose and it won't transfer power properly. You haven't given us any clue about the condition of the pivots and pivot holes. If there is significant wear in these parts you are wasting your time trying to make a worn-out clock run without doing the necessary bushing work.

There is one more test that you can easily do. Let down the time side spring completely, then remove the platform escapement. Now wind the spring one click at a time and let us know how many clicks before the wheels begin to turn. They should begin to turn almost immediately - 2 clicks or so.
There is a series of steps to follow to track down the problem, first things first, we need you to provide the requested information and pictures or videos.

RC

 

[spaine]

I would be lost without you, RC.
I was timid of doing too much off the bat, but I will take a deeper dive next since I really have nothing to lose at this point.

I knew nothing of the suggested next steps so I will do my best to answer the questions you posted.

Did I polish the pivots, no. Do you mean all of the pivots on both plates? Where all of the “gear shafts” sit in the two plates? Or are we just talking the pivots for the escapement?

I have hardly touched the escapement because it looks so fragile. I cleaned it as best as I could with it off of the backing plate. So I should check it’s degrees of rotation? I’m assuming that means how far the balance wheel with the spring on it rotates? How do you suggest I set it in motion for this test? And it should be >270, idealy more like 360. Do I just rotate it gently by hand?
While I have the escapement platform off, after I test it’s rotation, I should disassemble and check the pivot points for the balance wheel. Is this where I’m looking for the wear or egg-shaped pivot points? The mounting for the escapement seems good in comparison to the escapement on the larger Schatz clock I have. How do I know it is making too much or too little contact with the drive gear?

I did test the movement of the clock after reassembly but before I put the escapement back on. If I remember, it seemed to start spinning pretty quickly and I didn’t wind the spring much since I was wasnting to be careful after reassembly. I’ll check that though and report back the number of clicks.

Again, I appreciate you RC.

 

[spaine]

Ok, I had a moment between. Getting home from a birthday party my kid went to and the other one still being down for a nap…

I took the escapement of and checked the number of clicks of the key to get the clock to start moving. The answer was less than one. I’d say at about half a click, the clock started spinning right away. With the fist click of the spring ratchet gear, the clock would continue to spin for over 10 seconds until slowly coming to a stop.

Now on to the escapement when I have more time.

 

[R. Croswell]

I would be lost without you, RC.
I was timid of doing too much off the bat, but I will take a deeper dive next since I really have nothing to lose at this point.

I knew nothing of the suggested next steps so I will do my best to answer the questions you posted.

Did I polish the pivots, no. Do you mean all of the pivots on both plates? Where all of the “gear shafts” sit in the two plates? Or are we just talking the pivots for the escapement?

I have hardly touched the escapement because it looks so fragile. I cleaned it as best as I could with it off of the backing plate. So I should check it’s degrees of rotation? I’m assuming that means how far the balance wheel with the spring on it rotates? How do you suggest I set it in motion for this test? And it should be >270, idealy more like 360. Do I just rotate it gently by hand?
While I have the escapement platform off, after I test it’s rotation, I should disassemble and check the pivot points for the balance wheel. Is this where I’m looking for the wear or egg-shaped pivot points? The mounting for the escapement seems good in comparison to the escapement on the larger Schatz clock I have. How do I know it is making too much or too little contact with the drive gear?

I did test the movement of the clock after reassembly but before I put the escapement back on. If I remember, it seemed to start spinning pretty quickly and I didn’t wind the spring much since I was wasnting to be careful after reassembly. I’ll check that though and report back the number of clicks.

Again, I appreciate you RC.

* Did I polish the pivots, no. Do you mean all of the pivots on both plates? Where all of the "gear shafts" sit in the two plates? Or are we just talking the pivots for the escapement? The pivots are small diameter tips of the arbors (axles) with the gears between the main plates. These serve as the bearings for all the moving parts. During a complete service the pivots are inspected to be sure they are smooth and polished and/or burnished until they are mirror bright or look like black ice. At your level of experience, I recommend that you do not attempt to disassemble, clean or service the platform escapement. This requires watchmaker skills and tools.

* I have hardly touched the escapement because it looks so fragile. I cleaned it as best as I could with it off of the backing plate. This could be a problem. May I ask how you cleaned it and with what? Quite possibly the cleaning fluid that was used disturbed the old oil and is now trapped in the jeweled pivot cavity. No recommendation until we know just what you did.

* So I should check it's degrees of rotation? I'm assuming that means how far the balance wheel with the spring on it rotates? How do you suggest I set it in motion for this test? I'm sorry if I confused you. The degrees of rotation that I mentioned refer to the total degrees of rotation from one extreme to the other with the platform escapement mounted on the clock movement and running on its own power. It should start on its own and stabilize after about 5 minutes if the clock will run at all. (You may have read the procedure for testing a Hermle floating balance off the movement by turning it by hand 270 degrees a seeing how long it takes to stop moving, that's a different animal and a different test).

* should disassemble and check the pivot points for the balance wheel. Is this where I'm looking for the wear or egg-shaped pivot points? No. You should check the pivot holes in the main plates (see photos below) with magnification. Any that appear at all out of round need bushings. The pivots need to be straight, smooth, and bright. Do not disassemble any part of the platform. The jeweled bearings here require watchmaker skills to avoid damage. Edit: Some of the pivot holes are hidden in the photo - check them all.

* The mounting for the escapement seems good in comparison to the escapement on the larger Schatz clock I have. How do I know it is making too much or too little contact with the drive gear? This should explain, Pinion and Wheel Engagement

Good that the gears started to move immediately when you started to wind the spring. Of course that's unloaded, but it is encouraging.

RC

 

[spaine]

So I have good news. The clock is running and has been for almost an hour. I had some time and was feeling determined before you had a chance to reply.

I did take the escapement off and went for it. I was as careful as I could be. I got out my lighted magnifier and went as slow as possible. When I took of the plate that holds the balance wheel off and carefully removed it, I right away noticed some “gunk” for lack of better term. It was right there on the reddish colored jeweled pivot point. I used some of the same carb cleaner (that I had saved up when cleaning the clock) and dabbed it with a cotton swab. It came right off. I continued to carefully disassemble the rest of the escapement and cleaned it as well. I lightly oiled It and reassembled. I was surprised that it went back together quite easily. I was careful to not apply any pressure to any part, just to be sure I didn’t bend or break anything.

After it was all back together, I tested it by giving it a little rotational flick. Nothing too hard, of course. I doubt I did anything near to 270 degrees. I counted the seconds until it stopped oscillating and got to over 20 seconds on average. I haven’t read that article yet that you mentioned above so I don’t know how that compares. I’ve been having a hard time navigating the forum on my phone and have been away from my computer most of the day.

I reassembled everything ant it’s back in it’s case. I have no clue if the hands are even close if if the bells work, but it is running. I’ll adjust the hands as needed but it doesn’t seem to be striking the coil “bell” in the case. The hammer is moving but it’s not getting to the coil. Maybe this will be my next step!

I’m going to let it run tonight and see how it is in the morning.

 

[Kevin W.]

Just wanted to mention. Hope you are using that brake cleaner out side. Not good to inhale it.

 

[R. Croswell]

Just wanted to mention. Hope you are using that brake cleaner out side. Not good to inhale it.

Good point. He is using "carb cleaner" but the same precaution applies. It's a good idea to check the label to see what is in the product. Some contain acetone, and possibly other stuff that could dissolve the shellac used to hold the pallet jewels in place. I find that mass air flow sensor cleaner (probably the most expensive automotive spray cleaner) to be the "cleanest" and designed to leave no residue.

RC

 

[R. Croswell]

......... When I took of the plate that holds the balance wheel off and carefully removed it, I right away noticed some “gunk” for lack of better term. It was right there on the reddish colored jeweled pivot point. ............
I’ll adjust the hands as needed but it doesn’t seem to be striking the coil “bell” in the case. The hammer is moving but it’s not getting to the coil. ......

I’m going to let it run tonight and see how it is in the morning.

The "gunk" around the jewel suggests that someone may have over oiled it in the past. The escapement parts should be oiled with watch oil and very sparingly. On the back of the case you should find a small removable access cover that will allow you to adjust the bell hammer alignment.

If the clock is still running today, what is the total degrees of rotation of the balance wheel while it is running on its own?

RC

 

[spaine]

I prefer to use all volatile chemicals inside of a closet with a towel at the bottom of the door… ha.

I kid.

So the clock is still running this morning which is fantastic. This makes me want to try cleaning another Schatz clock I have that has the same symptoms as this had. Maybe it will work.

Looking at the escapement in action is like trying to time a car without a timing light! How?!? I would guess about 45 degrees?? Does that seem reasonable?


I watched as the bells struck and the hammer wasn’t swinging low enough to strike the coil. I imagine it got tweaked when I had it out? Or in its past life? I gave it just a smidge of adjustment in the rod and waited for the next strike. It hit this time but of course the coil was touching the back of the clock so it sounded pathetic. I nudged the coil away from the back of the housing and am waiting for the next half hour.

 

[R. Croswell]

Looking at the escapement in action is like trying to time a car without a timing light! How?!? I would guess about 45 degrees?? Does that seem reasonable?

A high-speed strobe light can make the balance wheel appear in slow motion, but there is a simpler and less expensive way. Use a black felt tip marker to put a mark about 1/8" wide at any place on the rim of the balance wheel. The balance wheel stops momentarily each time it reverses direction, and the mark will be visible for a moment. If you see only one mark (stopping at the same place in both directions) you have 360 degrees. If you have less than 360 degrees, you will see two marks and there will be an angle between them.

Typically, a balance wheel should swing between 270 and 360 degrees if the clock is running well. If you are only getting 45 degrees total rotation you clock is barely running, not likely to keep good time, and you may have problems keeping it running, especially after 7 or 8 days without winding. You didn't say if you cleaned and oiled the mainsprings. 45 degrees (if that is what you are getting) sounds like there is still a power problem.

RC

 

[spaine]

45 degrees was a wild guess. It seems to be going very strong as far as balance wheel rotation. I’ll make a mark and check it.

 

[R. Croswell]

45 degrees was a wild guess. It seems to be going very strong as far as balance wheel rotation. I’ll make a mark and check it.

Please do, and let us know what you find. One other test you can do with balance wheel clocks is place the clock face down, face up, upright, and other positions. If the rotation is weaker or stronger in sone position that may indicate a potential issue.

.....and did you or did you not remove, clean, and oil the mainsprings?

RC

 

[gmorse]

Hi spaine,

When you've marked the balance as RC has suggested, take a short video of the running balance with your phone and then replay it in slow motion, when you can see how much amplitude you're getting.

Regards,

Graham

 

[spaine]

Sorry for the delay in response - yesterday was a busy day of work and meetings after work.

I did what you suggested and marked the balance wheel. From what I'm seeing, it is making over 270 degrees of rotation. I would put it closer 300+.

I have not opened up the springs as of yet. Is this a difficult task. I took a quick look to see if there was a guide for doing this, but didn't find one yet. It is currently keeping "ok" time.it drifts a few minutes behind every day it runs. I have the adjuster set all of the way as "fast" as it will go. I even made sure that the adjuster arm was rotated so that it could move the lever as far over to fast as possible.

Its also still struggling with the bell but I have only slightly looked into that so far.

 

[R. Croswell]

Sorry for the delay in response - yesterday was a busy day of work and meetings after work.

I did what you suggested and marked the balance wheel. From what I'm seeing, it is making over 270 degrees of rotation. I would put it closer 300+.

I have not opened up the springs as of yet. Is this a difficult task. I took a quick look to see if there was a guide for doing this, but didn't find one yet. It is currently keeping "ok" time.it drifts a few minutes behind every day it runs. I have the adjuster set all of the way as "fast" as it will go. I even made sure that the adjuster arm was rotated so that it could move the lever as far over to fast as possible.

Its also still struggling with the bell but I have only slightly looked into that so far.

300 degrees is good if it holds up for several weeks. Spring powered clocks typically slow down over the week as the spring runs down. Having to set the rate to max fast is a sign that something isn't quite right. When you cleaned the balance did you unhook the hair spring? Not sure what "Its also still struggling with the bell" means. Obviously, the mainsprings will deliver more consistent power when clean and properly lubricated. On this clock, you do not need to completely disassemble the movement to remove the spring barrels. Removing the springs from the barrels is best done with a spring winder. If you attempt to remove the springs by hand you risk coning the spring, and also losing control and having it fly in your face. I would not attempt to remove or install these springs without a spring winder, but in all fairness, there are some here that claim that they can. If you plan to continue working on this type of clock, I suggest that you consider buying or making a spring winder. There are plans available here for building a Joe Collins winder which many have found useful.

RC

 

[gmorse]

Hi spaine,

From what I'm seeing, it is making over 270 degrees of rotation. I would put it closer 300+.

When we talk of the amplitude in terms of degrees, the figures refer to the excursion from the central or neutral point out to one side, it isn't the angle from one extreme to the other, that's twice the value. Thus if you're seeing 300 in total, that's expressed as an amplitude of 150.

Regards,

Graham

 

[R. Croswell]

A high-speed strobe light can make the balance wheel appear in slow motion, but there is a simpler and less expensive way. Use a black felt tip marker to put a mark about 1/8" wide at any place on the rim of the balance wheel. The balance wheel stops momentarily each time it reverses direction, and the mark will be visible for a moment. If you see only one mark (stopping at the same place in both directions) you have 360 degrees. If you have less than 360 degrees, you will see two marks and there will be an angle between them.

Typically, a balance wheel should swing between 270 and 360 degrees if the clock is running well. If you are only getting 45 degrees total rotation you clock is barely running, not likely to keep good time, and you may have problems keeping it running, especially after 7 or 8 days without winding. You didn't say if you cleaned and oiled the mainsprings. 45 degrees (if that is what you are getting) sounds like there is still a power problem.

RC

To avoid any confusion, we are talking here about total rotation from one extreme to the other, which generally needs to be at least 270 degrees and preferably 360 degrees or a bit more. We can only see the "spot" on the balance wheel when it stops to reverse direction. If the spot is seen at the same place in both directions, it is 360 degrees.

RC