Becker 4 Glass in brass

lesbradley

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I've been looking for one of these for some time. Luckily this one came along at a fair price. Serial no.2097208, which I believe dates it to 1909, a little later than my other two large dial GBs, but I am sure Pastimes will be more accurate than that.

The clock appears to be relatively unmolested, but very tarnished. I do have the suspension guard, just removed to set up and see how it runs.

As I post this it has been running for about an hour without glitch. Having just done the Hauck 4 glass, I'll probably leave this a week or two before restore.

These 4 glass cases take hours to do a decent job, along with the factor of siezed case screws.
 

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pahel

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Jul 26, 2008
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hi lesbradley,

nice clock, I like these four glass cases, as they're not only a lovely variation to the common 400 day style, i'ts also less vulnerable than these touchy glass domes.
I also found one on a local antique market last week. It was (and partially still is) in a bad condition but worth to be restored. dont' believe that the movement was originally mounted in this case, but it fits well beside my collection of french crystal regulator clocks. the only disatvantage I see now, is that normal set up of beat adjustment is a bit difficult to do inside the case.
cheers
pahel
 

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lesbradley

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pahel said:
hi lesbradley,

nice clock, I like these four glass cases, as they're not only a lovely variation to the common 400 day style, i'ts also less vulnerable than these touchy glass domes.
I also found one on a local antique market last week. It was (and partially still is) in a bad condition but worth to be restored. dont' believe that the movement was originally mounted in this case, but it fits well beside my collection of french crystal regulator clocks. the only disatvantage I see now, is that normal set up of beat adjustment is a bit difficult to do inside the case.
cheers
pahel
Yours looks like a Kienzle, and I've never seen that method of mounting in a 4 glass before.
I have found that you need to set these up on a normal base before returning to the case. The Becker appears to have no adjustment for the top suspension. The fork that holds the top block is rivetted to the bracket.
The Hauck I have requires removal of the movement to do any adjustment, and the movement is held in the case by the dial backplate.
However on the Becker Mahogany you can remove the glass vertically just like a dome, no doors.
All adds to the fun.
 

Ingulphus

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I've finally found the correct movement, dial and piecrust bezel for my JUF four-glass case (the cover lifts off the base, which makes adjustments much easier). The mounting is two standard JUF posts and a platform, but the top two movement pillars are threaded with two holes each, so it's likely it was used in a top-mount case. Gears very rusted, bent tooth on mainspring barrel, some scratches and aging to the silvered dial, but I think it will be well worth it when done.

Les, as usual you're making me spin with envy, but perhaps this time I'll be able to return the favor...:devil:

Best to all,

Mark
 

John Hubby

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pahel said:
hi lesbradley,
nice clock, I like these four glass cases, as they're not only a lovely variation to the common 400 day style, i'ts also less vulnerable than these touchy glass domes.
I also found one on a local antique market last week. It was (and partially still is) in a bad condition but worth to be restored. dont' believe that the movement was originally mounted in this case, but it fits well beside my collection of french crystal regulator clocks. the only disatvantage I see now, is that normal set up of beat adjustment is a bit difficult to do inside the case.
cheers pahel
Pahel, thanks for posting the photos. Like Les, I've not seen this arrangement before either, normally when mounted on posts in a 4-glass case, they will be like the Becker Les posted. My opinion is that your clock is the work of an innovative person who had a spare 4-glass case and a Kienzle 400-Day clock, then married the two.

I've posted a copy of the photo of your clock below with three red circles on it, showing where the case was originally built to be a typical French crystal regulator with gong strike. At the upper left, the red circle is around the hole in the upper plate of the case where the coil gong would normally be fitted. The other two red circles are around the threaded mounting holes in the two front case posts where the dial bezel would be mounted if it were still present.

None the less, it's an interesting clock!

I've also posted a photo of a Kienzle mounted in an Oak 4-glass case, in the "conventional" manner such as Les' Becker. I've seen Kienzles in brass 4-glass cases mounted this same way but don't have a photo in my file.

John Hubby
>>>>
 

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pahel

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Jul 26, 2008
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Pahel, thanks for posting the photos. Like Les, I've not seen this arrangement before either, normally when mounted on posts in a 4-glass case, they will be like the Becker Les posted. My opinion is that your clock is the work of an innovative person who had a spare 4-glass case and a Kienzle 400-Day clock, then married the two.

I've posted a copy of the photo of your clock below with three red circles on it, showing where the case was originally built to be a typical French crystal regulator with gong strike. At the upper left, the red circle is around the hole in the upper plate of the case where the coil gong would normally be fitted. The other two red circles are around the threaded mounting holes in the two front case posts where the dial bezel would be mounted if it were still present.

None the less, it's an interesting clock!

I've also posted a photo of a Kienzle mounted in an Oak 4-glass case, in the "conventional" manner such as Les' Becker. I've seen Kienzles in brass 4-glass cases mounted this same way but don't have a photo in my file.

John Hubby
>>>>
hi all,
thanks for your statements, photos and identification help. John, your'e absolutely right, it's a french regulator case in a bilingiual marriage. I didn't notice the screw holes in the front pillars but that's a clear evidence. nonetheless I'll leave it like this, though it would be easy to find a base and glass dome to bring it back to it's original shape. I have it running now for some days with a 0,08mm suspension and it keeps time well with a nice 370 degree oversving (probably due to the longer spring wire in that case ?). The reason why it was mounted with that unconvetional back/ overhead-posts arrangement is that the case-depth is to small, otherwise the pendulum would hit the rear door. your oak-4-glass case looks wonderfull with that clock, to admit, makes me a bit jalous :) but we all start with peanuts and I'm beginning to take a shine to that type of clock - inspired by all your examples..

pahel
 

lesbradley

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I've been looking for one of these for some time. Luckily this one came along at a fair price. Serial no.2097208, which I believe dates it to 1909, a little later than my other two large dial GBs, but I am sure Pastimes will be more accurate than that.

The clock appears to be relatively unmolested, but very tarnished. I do have the suspension guard, just removed to set up and see how it runs.

As I post this it has been running for about an hour without glitch. Having just done the Hauck 4 glass, I'll probably leave this a week or two before restore.

These 4 glass cases take hours to do a decent job, along with the factor of siezed case screws.
Well, yes the new look forum is a bit different. I for one, commenting as an IT professional, think its a looks great, however it seems at the moment you have to resize any pic manually before posting, congratulations to all involved!

Anyway, down to business.

Could not resist restoring this clock. One weeks hard graft and now done. I have posted a picture but will post again when better light available. This does not do the clock justice. Final appearance of the clock was well worth the effort.

However, this clock appears to have no adjustment whatsoever to the suspension bracket. It is not far out of beat wherever you put it. But to get it in beat you either have to tweak the pin on the anchor, which I have not done, or chock the clock to a different angle, which works fine. Any remarks on something I'm missing on this clock, or am I doing the right thing?
 

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John Hubby

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Les, could you post a photo of the upper suspension bracket? A few early Beckers had one that did not provide for beat adjustment except by using tweezers to twist the suspension wire just below the upper block.

Also regarding the photos, the software will automatically resize them if they are less than 1.5 MB but won't let you post if bigger than that. If they are smaller than 600x600 pixels they will show actual size.

John Hubby
>>>>
 

lesbradley

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Les, could you post a photo of the upper suspension bracket? A few early Beckers had one that did not provide for beat adjustment except by using tweezers to twist the suspension wire just below the upper block.

Also regarding the photos, the software will automatically resize them if they are less than 1.5 MB but won't let you post if bigger than that. If they are smaller than 600x600 pixels they will show actual size.

John Hubby
>>>>
Pictures of suspension bracket attached
 

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John Hubby

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Les, thanks for posting the detailed photos. You do have the upper bracket that is "not" adjustable, it is Bracket No. 4 in the Repair Guide. This bracket was used from the first GB standard 400-Day clocks made in 1902 until about the end of 1909, intermixed with the adjustable brackets No. 5 and No. 7. Thus far I've not been able to pin down any rhyme or reason why they used one or the other.

==========================================
There are two ways to adjust the beat, neither one particularly good but the first one is the easiest.

1) Use two tweezers to twist the suspension spring just below the upper block, as follows:

Grasp the suspension wire below the upper block with one tweezers, and hold those steady so the wire won't be twisted next to the block. Grasp the wire about 2 mm below the first tweezers with the second tweezers. Twist the wire with the second tweezers until it bends and sets to the new position. The same rule applies for deciding which direction to twist as for turning the saddle, twist toward the side with the shortest overswing, looking from the back of the clock.

Basically in doing this you overstress the wire to the point you go past its plastic deformation point so that it will "set" in the new position. This needs to be done quite carefully, but with a little practice you will be able to "feel" the wire twist and set. It is strictly a "try until you get it" method. :rolleyes:

2) Rotate the anchor pin collet on the anchor shaft, as follows:

This is the same method as used on a Junghans 400-Day. The problem here is that the GB anchor pin collet is much tighter on the arbor than the Junghans, and it is not screwed on. To prepare to use this procedure you first need to remove the anchor arbor and then pull the anchor pin collet off the shaft. Use a burnishing tool or crocus paper to very lightly burnish the arbor, until you can slide the collet back on the shaft to obtain a snug but not tight friction fit. The point here is that you will need to be able to turn the collet on the shaft with the anchor arbor in place to make your adjustments, but once made the collet will stay in place from the friction fit.

Once the preparation has been made, install the anchor arbor, start the pendulum turning, and check overswing. After seeing which side has the shortest overswing, stop the pendulum and using flat-blade pliers to grip the anchor pin collet, hold the anchor with your thumb and forefinger on the other hand and slightly turn the collet toward the side with the shortest overswing. Once again, it will take some practice to get the feel of how much to turn, but with that you can bring the clock into beat.

==========================================

In the instance of your 4-Glass clock, the tweezers method can be used with the movement installed. The second method requires that the movement be out of the clock on a stand. Either method can be used on a typical glass dome model with the movement in place.

John Hubby
>>>>
 

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