battery clock

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by rich84, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Although I mainly repair antique mechanical clocks, I took in a battery clock for a friend. It is an anniversary type with both the rotating motion and time powered by one AA battery. The problem was only with the motion work. I cleaned and adjusted that part of the clock and got it running. It ran well for several days but then stopped. Neither time nor motion worked. The battery checked ok, even so, I installed a new battery, which did not work either. The movement seems to be dead, but like I said in the beginning, these types of clocks are foreign to me. Are there any checks I can make to pin-point the problem? I do have a multi-meter to use for troubleshooting.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  2. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    140
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Rich, from my experience, if changing the battery and cleaning the contacts doesn't get it running, it's seldom worth going any further. There were so many different movements used in these clocks, and so few parts available to restore them. Too much plastic:eek::rolleyes:.
     
  3. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,464
    175
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Rich i have worked on a few of these.I lucked out once and got one running really well.I think it just a fluke.
    The mechanical 400 day clocks are so much nicer i feel.:)
     
  4. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Thanks for responding. The clock means something to my friend (an anniversary present) so I was hoping to get it going for him. What really hurts is that he said that if I couldn't get the motion working, he would use it as a timepiece, and now that doesn't work either.

    Rich
     
  5. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    140
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Post some pictures in case someone has a working movement to help you out with. I've got a few that I've bought cheaply at our local Goodwill just for the glass, and some do work.
     
  6. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Good suggestion. I will attempt to attach pictures.


    Also, the movement contains these inscriptions:

    S. HALLER/No (0) jewels/unadjusted

    Quartz/85

    "W085/00675"


    Thanks again
    Rich
     

    Attached Files:

  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
    NAWCC Member Deceased

    Nov 4, 2002
    40,850
    140
    63
    Male
    deceased
    Whitby, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Good luck with that one. I have spent fruitless hours trying to repair this movement. Too much plastic. I don't have a working version of this.
     
  8. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    21,464
    175
    63
    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    You might try looking on Ebay, for one that is in working condition.
     
  9. Watchfixer

    Watchfixer Registered User

    Jun 11, 2011
    1,198
    0
    0
    TV repair tech.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    This is unique clock movement, I can see that same motor powers both.
    One is cam that moves lever back and forth that turns a loosely coupled (there's a spring in there) coupler to the pendulum.

    The key is take it apart clean all oil out and use plastic safe oil, just one rotor see if the electronic is working by watching that rotor spin half turn every second. If not, check the springy contacts that make contact with the circuit board. Otherwise one could improve this by soldering short wires from circuit to the contacts if contacts is solderable. Do this out of the plastic housing (don't want to melt anything!).

    The circuit is really simple. Small cap, tunable cap, resistor or two, quartz can, 8 pin IC or a black blob on the circuit board. Also make sure contacts for the coil is making good contact with the circuit board.

    I had quartz wall clock stop dead by a dead ant in the gears. :)

    Cheers, Watchfixer
     
  10. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Thanks, that detail helps. I took it apart and could not find any break in the conductivity and the works are pretty clean. I sprayed a little contact cleaner anyway.

    It will beat a few times weakly when first installing the battery (after leaving idle for a while). This is no different than before taking apart. Does this point to anything?

    Rich
     
  11. Watchfixer

    Watchfixer Registered User

    Jun 11, 2011
    1,198
    0
    0
    TV repair tech.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Make sure pendulum is freely swinging back and forth, give it a nudge.

    Cheers, Watchfixer
     
  12. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    63
    0
    Calif. USA
    Hi
    There should be a trace going from the coil to the IC ( black blob ).
    With your voltmeter, set on low volts DC, you should see the
    needle jump every second. The other lead should be on the battery
    ( the end with the least static needle movement ).
    If the jumping reduces in amplitude, it would indicate that there
    is a problem with the IC.
    These are not normally replaceable. One can remove on from
    another quartz clock though. One would cut the PC board, carefully
    around the blob. Leaving enough traces to solder wires to.
    One would have to trace which wires went where at they might
    radiate differently on a different movement.
    One has to be careful not to twist the board will cutting or it
    might damage the chip under the blob.
    It is also a good idea to keep the crystal ( small aluminum tube )
    and adjustment with the blob.
    Remove the blob in a similar way from the original.
    Such surgery is possible but I've never attempted it my self.
    Tinker Dwight
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Hi
    One other thought.
    Is the hour wheel plastic?
    If it is, there is a chance that the hour hand has
    squeezed it enough to jam the movement.
    Remove the hands, dial and hour wheel. Then
    see if it still stalls.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  13. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Thanks again for the reply and hints to a solution.
    I took the movement out of the case and found that it wants to tick, but the stepper gear does not move freely, especially with power. There is a segment that will step, but then stalls and it feels tight on the arbor. It appears a little dirty and I would like to take it out to clean the area, but it doesn't pull out. There is no visible interference but I don't want to break anything by forcing. Is there a recommended product made for this dilema? There is no damage or interference with the hour wheel.
    Bellow is the removed movement.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Watchfixer

    Watchfixer Registered User

    Jun 11, 2011
    1,198
    0
    0
    TV repair tech.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Yes you need to pull the rotor out. The rotor is magnetic and will give you some resistance and old oil will make it feel like you can't get it out.
    Just gently grasp the pinion and pull completely out.

    Very vital to clean all old dried up oil off, I don't know of any to suggest to clean the hole the gear and rotor that rides on the shafts.

    You are doing great by the way.

    Cheers, Watchfixer
     
  15. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    63
    0
    Calif. USA
    Hi
    I with Fixer. You need to pull it out and clean.
    It may not completely rotate by itself. Usually
    the next wheel will have some type of one way detent
    or ratchet to keep it from back rotating.
    The magnetic field may make it seem to stick a
    little while rotating and it should kind of pop to the
    next 180 degree position.
    Tinker Dwight
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Hi
    One other thing. You should tie the battery
    contacts together when you don't have the battery
    in place.
    These are designed to run on a few hundred pico-amperes.
    The chips don't have much static protection other than
    depending on the low impedance of the battery. With
    no battery in place they can be more easily damaged
    by static discharge.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  16. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    Good suggestions, I removed the gear and cleaned out the socket and shaft with pithwood and I used Radico to pick up the debris. I thought I would ask for information before continuing with cleaning the gear. The gear is magnetized and I hesitate to put it in an ultrasonic cleaner because I am afraid it may affect the magnetization. I have magnetized hairsprings in my ultrasonic cleaner in the past. Hairsprings have far less mass than the gear I intend to clean, but I thought I would ask for advice before I clean the gear.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Rich
     
  17. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
    13,666
    63
    0
    Calif. USA
    Hi
    Ususally it is a small ceramic magnet glued
    to the plastic gear.
    I would not put it in an ultrasonic cleaner.
    Cleaning with solvent and a stick should be
    enough.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  18. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    The magnetic gear has a hole in and rides on a shaft. It is not glued to a plastic gear. Cleaning the hole out would be the toughest part and that is why I suggested using the ultrasonic, but I will attempt to do it manually.

    Thanks for the tip,
    Rich
     
  19. GeoFan

    GeoFan New Member

    Dec 24, 2012
    1
    0
    0
    My aunt has a mantel clock, with one of these Quartz 85 (W085/00675) movements, bought in Germany many years ago.

    After changing the battery recently, the electronic melody chime went crazy. It plays a random tune on each hour. There is a tiny button on the back side of the movement case, at the upper left, but it does not seem to have any effect. How to turn off the chime, or change the melody?
     
  20. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

    Dec 30, 2010
    175
    7
    18
    Male
    Retired Mech Eng Tech
    Wisconsin
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have a couple of Haller battery clocks with the same design movement. One runs flawlessly but the rotary pendulum on the other would run for a while and then stop while the timing portion would keep on running. I lubed the lower and upper pendulum pivots with oil and powdered graphite to no avail; it did not change anything. Making sure that the clock was on a level surface did not help either. Finally I made a small modification to the forked lever that is visible on your photo showing the exposed works. Using a toothpick, I added a very small dab of Oatey all purpose plastic water pipe cement from a red and white labeled 4 oz can, good for ABS, CPVC and PVC, to the crotch of the forked lever near the pivot. The levers are joined near the pivot and you need to increase the length of that joined portion. It seems that the forked lever is not quite stiff enough so instead of operating the pendulum like it should, the levers flex, absorbing the movement from the eccentric. The levers need to be made more rigid. I repaired mine and the pendulum has been running since. Give the cement several hours to harden. If necessary you might add additional cement later but one application was all mine needed. Make sure that there is no cement on the back side of the forked levers or it may interfere with the clear plastic plate. It would be best to remove the forked lever to add the cement.

    The levers must retain some flexibility so as to be able to permit the mechanism to withstand overspinning the pendulum as someone might do. The pendulum on this design is self starting so no pendulum external starting assistance is needed.
     
  21. Cheezhead

    Cheezhead Registered User

    Dec 30, 2010
    175
    7
    18
    Male
    Retired Mech Eng Tech
    Wisconsin
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I apologize for my post. I misread your original post to mean that the pendulum was not working but the step motor was running as intended. Unfortunately, I can't delete the post as the time permitted for editing has expired.
     
  22. ltelle

    ltelle New Member

    Mar 4, 2017
    4
    0
    0
    Country Flag:
    Hi Rich,
    I have exactly the same problem and wondered if you were successful in your cleaning?
    Larry
     
  23. rich84

    rich84 Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Mar 23, 2005
    80
    0
    6
    The clock ran after cleaning the magnetic gear. I have the clock back now, It ran for almost 8 years and stopped again. This time the pendulum seems to be the problem. It does not rotate smoothly. The motor puts out very little power so there must be very little friction. The pendulum sits in a magnetic field to allow freedom of rotation but in this case it seems to hang up and drag. I cannot see the problem visually so I wondered if anyone has experience with this type of a setup.
     

Share This Page