Barwise File.

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Allan C. Purcell, Nov 29, 2019.

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  1. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Feb 9, 2013
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    I have put this new thread on here to make it easily accessible, and where it is now it seems to be an obstacle.

    It is as been said by many, that the numbers system used by John Barwise is complicated, but the more we find of his work, the more clearly it becomes, that his system was straight forward. We are talking here of John Barwise senior, who lived from c1756 to 1820. Probably because he knew he was dying, he brought his two sons into the business in 1819. Weston Barwise (1793-1826) and John Barwise /1795-1869) to continue the Business. Though looking at the File below we can see that up to 1820 the numbers were consecutive. The file below has been corrected and more numbers installed.

    Anyone who has a Barwise pocket watch, not on this file, I would be pleased to hear from them.

    Allan.
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  2. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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  3. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Thanks much Allan! John Barwise had always confused me.

    I just celebrated a timing run at +2 min in 24 hrs for my 1804 cylinder.

    Graham had corrected me long ago as to the approx. age to place on it.
    Thanks much for your efforts!

    John B. on the left in an 1834 replacement inner case, timing with one
    of my MI Tobias levers from 1861. Note, the only English watch I have
    encountered with Fast on the left hand side of the reg scale.

    Keith R...

    Barwise 3 (1200x900).jpg 103_0278 (800x600).jpg
     
  4. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Finding Barwise watches are far easier today than it was researchers years ago, who had, I think a difficult and time-consuming search. I know from experience that when I started to take interest in Horology, it was sitting for hours and writing on an old typewriter, then putting my efforts (and bad spelling) in an envelope, sticking a stamp on there, and waiting sometimes weeks for a reply. In the meantime reading all, I could about clocks and watches. Many of you will know this of course, but today all it takes is a few clicks on this machine, and all is laid before you. Below are a few pieces I found on the net, among many others, which give a demonstration of Wow Wow, down to what the hell is this, plus those where you know the seller as not done his research. The first one here as a wonderful Detent pocket watch for sale(a long time ago), but claims the watch to be hallmarked London c1790, then shows a photograph of the hallmarks which are clear for 1808.


    Barwise London Very Fine Silver Pocket Chronometer, No. 4387, circa | Lot #54191 | Heritage Auctions



    The file grows by the hour........


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  5. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Keith, nice movement you have there, could you please send the escapement and any other details it might have, like that inner case, is it hallmarked? Nice touch with the Bosley on the cock. Allan

    PS: Read you post again Cylinder 1804-I will put it on file now.
     
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  6. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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  7. Niall

    Niall Registered User

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  8. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Niall, Thank you for sending the post, you will see your Barwise number on the next issue. Best wishes, Allan
     
  9. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Over the weekend I have taken the time to look for pocket watches by John Barwise, John Barwise & Sons, and later others. This file below is far more comprehensive, and I have come to the conclusion that John Bawrise started to set out a numbering system that was consecutive. The earliest watch at the moment is No. 37 and is dated c1780, some two hundred and thirty-nine years ago. By the time of his death these numbers had reached roughly 8000 items, though I am not sure if his clocks were part of the system. A time scale like that makes one think quite a bit, ledgers come to mind, much like those found in France by Breguet, ledgers like that are very few and far between. Then it struck me, while I was working on "The Book" the most important security for watchmaker and customer was the watch serial number. You took your watch to the repairer for cleaning, and you received a chit, with the items number, saying when you could collect it, and the watchmaker, in this case, noted that number in his workbook. It saved him a lot of time, explaining the watch. Another point here was many of the watches brought into the Osborne workshop in New York, were not well recorded because many Europian watches did not have a serial number. Putting Swiss silver watch is of little interest for researchers, after two hundred years, have gone by. At the time of that first watch sold by Barwise, we have to remember the only watch you could buy had a verge escapement.( We know the story of other escapements and those who could afford one) A verge watch needed cleaning at least every two years, if not sooner, so when a customer brought in his watch, it would like today with our automobiles, be nice to open a ledger and look at what had gone before with the watch. Nice to just look at the number on the watch and trace it in the ledger. Later this was normal, just look at watches by Patek, Langer, Rolex, Jügenson, Audemars, and many others. It would be assistant if others could put their thoughts on here about serial numbers, but first take a look at what can be found in just a few hours. (" Warts and All" has Burton said ) Allan.

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  10. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    This file is moving along, though slowing down a bit now. I think the numbers for John Barwise senior are straight forward. It is only much later that there is some confusion, but when more of these watches are found, they will tell us more. Allan.

    [​IMG]
     

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