Barnes and Bartholomew label

Discussion in 'Wood Movement Clocks' started by abe, Mar 4, 2020.

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  1. abe

    abe Registered User

    Jan 8, 2009
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    Does anyone sell reproduction Barnes and Bartholomew paper labels? Mine is legible but wondering if it could be replaced.
     
  2. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Abe,
    I would NEVER replace an original label, specially if it is still legible, but it is up to you. Posting a pic would help raising opinions.:)

    Aitor
     
  3. abe

    abe Registered User

    Jan 8, 2009
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    Yeh, that's a good point. Here's a pic of my label.

    IMG_20200316_153758.jpg
     
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  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I would not replace the label. It looks good as it is.
     
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  5. ballistarius

    ballistarius Registered User

    Oct 26, 2009
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    Somewhat ugly but in fine condition. I would keep it without any doubt.

    Aitor
     
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  6. Troy Livingston

    Troy Livingston Registered User
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    Aug 28, 2006
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    Your label is not at all bad, I've seen much worse.

    Replacing original labels can result in a significant reduction of the historical and financial value of these clocks. An original label provides proof of manufacturer. Details such as wording, font, spacing, and the printer can provide useful information as to date or manufacturing location. All of this is lost or becomes questionable once you put in the replacement.

    My opinion, even a few tattered, barely legible remnants of an original label are far superior to any of the modern replacement labels. As far as I am concerned replacement labels are worse than useless.
     
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  7. Robbie Pridgen

    Robbie Pridgen Registered User

    Aug 18, 2019
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    Good replies from everyone, especially Troy. I was thinking about replacing my label in my wooden works mantel clock, but don’t have enough of the label left to even know which manufacturer to use. See pics. I’m sure that I’ll leave well enough alone!

    547300D7-F1CF-4FCC-BFCD-148212B49B99.jpeg D0E36E47-5E65-42EA-B677-9A553C3A9B52.jpeg
     
  8. Troy Livingston

    Troy Livingston Registered User
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    Aug 28, 2006
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    Robbie,

    Try starting a new thread with clear photos of your clock, movement, dial, and of any details on the label not shown above. Perhaps it can be identified. At least it could provide a welcome diversion for folks.

    Troy
     
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  9. Robbie Pridgen

    Robbie Pridgen Registered User

    Aug 18, 2019
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    Ok Troy, I’ve previously started a thread on August 25, 2019 titled “Inherited Old Pillar and Splat Mantel Clock” but have not yet removed the movement. I’m looking forward to doing this so that I can properly clean and oil it with my new kit of Horace Whitley’s. I did receive a lot of informative replies from great members but no guesses as to the manufacturer. I’m sure that’s because I need to take pictures of the movement first. I hope to soon. Thanks Troy for the reply! Robbie
     
  10. Robbie Pridgen

    Robbie Pridgen Registered User

    Aug 18, 2019
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    *Correction* Thread was posted August 21, 2019 in “Your New Clock Acquisition” then my title. Robbie
     
  11. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Livingston's statements on this matter.

    This is not the first time a MB participant has inquired about reproduction labels.

    If one peruses eBay, sure, they are available.

    IMCO, a profoundly bad idea for the reasons stated above.

    At the risk of sounding harsh and critical, this is an aspect of that restore it to "like new" mentality that is rather pervasive and wrong.

    Clock collecting (and other antiques for that matter) is not not vintage and antique cars where restoration to a state of perfection beyond that present when they left the factory seems to be expected.

    RM
     
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  12. Troy Livingston

    Troy Livingston Registered User
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    I've replied here as the other thread is pretty old and and this is an excellent example of the value of even a few tattered fragments of an original label.

    I found the old thread and you got some good advice and information, although I hope you haven't altered the depthing yet. This should be the absolute last thing you try. The movement appears to have been repaired with about the same skill level as the dial repaint. As it is, your dial fairly screams Seth Thomas and the movement is also by Seth Thomas (Ref. Bulletin 208 Part 1 Fig 31). With this information it was a simple thing to find a probably copy of your label (Ref. Good for a Time The Christopher R. Brown Research Archive of Early American Wooden Works Shelf Clocks p.103) I'm sure the NAWCC library has a copy available. For another partial view of something similar look at:

    Link to another photo.

    While I am certain I'm not allowed to send a copy of the photo from the from the book, I'm hoping it is legal to include the link to a different photo on another page.

    Nice clock, and here's hoping a Horace Whitley kit isn't a tube of graphite powder along with some miracle elixir designed to reinvigorate, restore lost vital oils, and feed the wood.
     
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  13. Robbie Pridgen

    Robbie Pridgen Registered User

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  14. Robbie Pridgen

    Robbie Pridgen Registered User

    Aug 18, 2019
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    GREAT Info Troy! Thanks for all of the advice and link. The picture looks very similar especially the box designs with 8 dots in each. I’m sure that Seth Thomas clocks are one of the most desirable. I have not adjusted the depth of the verge only because I’m inexperienced but very careful. I have noticed that the escape wheel does wobble in front in the bridge plate. There appears to be scrapes in the metal bridge possibly caused from a past “repair”. The kit that I have is only for oiling the movement and it’s synthetic. I’m not doing anything to the wood finish. I also believe in leaving well enough alone. The clock was passed down through my wife’s family so I must be careful!! Thanks again!
     
  15. abe

    abe Registered User

    Jan 8, 2009
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    Thanks to all for the advice on replacement labels. I do know my clock was made sometime between 1834-36 since Barnes and Bartholomew were partners for only those three years... I think. So I will leave it alone.

    Speaking of vintage vehicles, I have a 1954 Ford F100 I bought from my Grandpa in 1977. In 1999 I finally fixed it up. I had to do it since it was so rusted it left rust stains on my drive way after a rain storm. Here are before and after pics. There is a trend in the old truck world today to keep the patina. Some even paint in such a way to try to replicate what took Mother Nature years to make. This is called faux-tina.
    pre_1998_d_576d47a0642b6d5988a029ac62780e1e142b219f.jpg
    june_26_b_28ed1a0ceb14ec2bcab2462ec9e4363363451bd2.jpg
     
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  16. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Nice work on the truck! Could not have been an easy job. Congratulations!
     
  17. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Great job!! I believe this would be referred to as a “short box”? Whatever, it’s the look I like.

    Love those old pick-ups. Simple, basic, rugged work vehicles. Now they seem to have morphed into luxury vehicles to drive to the mall?

    I look @ a couple of sites devoted to antique & vintage vehicles purely out of interest. Also like to watch the televised auctions. Have to admit I get bored with those after a while. It seems they sell dozens of Mustang & Corvette “restomods” in bright red (I now call it Mecum red). Also, if the auctioneer’s staff were in my face at say a clock auction while I was bidding, screeching & cajoling the way they do @ those auctions, I would probably commit assault.

    Pick-ups like these seem to be all the rage right now. The faked patina stuff to me is ugly & idiotic. Just like faking worn & crackled paint on furniture.

    However, a very different aesthetic for clocks, antiques vs. vintage vehicles. I say understand both & respect the difference.

    Thanks for sharing.

    RM
     
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