Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by johnbscott, Oct 18, 2012.

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  1. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Super Moderator
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    Sep 3, 2000
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    can we see pics of the 23J??
     
  2. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Aug 26, 2000
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    This (the 23-jewel watch S/N B060909) was reported as being seen on eBay on May 20, 2017. However, I don't recall seeing a picture at that time.
     
  3. TimeAntiquarian

    TimeAntiquarian Registered User
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    Dec 29, 2011
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    Item #401356717326
    Ended July 9, 2017

    Photos are still online.
     
  4. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Aug 24, 2000
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  5. TimeAntiquarian

    TimeAntiquarian Registered User
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    #65 TimeAntiquarian, Jul 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  6. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    #66 Tom McIntyre, Jul 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
    FWIW, there is also no sale noted on the second auction. It is just ended. The one I posted is 060909 and the other is 060907, so I do not think this was a flip. :)

    There is no record available of the May auction of 060909.
     
  7. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Aug 18, 2002
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    Same watch, B060909 both listings.
     
  8. TimeAntiquarian

    TimeAntiquarian Registered User
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    Dec 29, 2011
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    I see now that the second one ended without a sale.

    It is the same watch as the previous auction though. Both are serial #B060909.

    Was there an additional auction back in May or was that the one that ended June 6?
     
  9. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
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    Fred, you cheated and looked at the watch. I was going by the detailed listing.
    Code:
    Year of Manufacture:	1900-1909	Number of Jewels:	23 Jewels
    Closure:	Open Face	Pocket Watch Size:	16
    Features:	Mint Ball Railroad, 12-Hour Dial, 24-Hour Dial, Arabic Numerals	MPN:	
    Does Not Apply
    Movement:	Mechanical (Hand-winding)	Material:	Yellow Gold Filled
    Country/Region of Manufacture:	United States	Serial Number:	B0690907
    Escapement Type:	Lever	Model:	
    Ball Waltham 23 Jewel
    Brand:	
    BALL Waltham
    
     
  10. johnbscott

    johnbscott Registered User
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    Feb 25, 2007
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    In the second auction, under Item Specifics, the movement number was mis-stated as being B060907 but it was correctly identified as B060909 in the text, below that. The accompanying photographs confirm this. It was the same movement, both times.

    In its initially offered form, the assemblage would have been a fairly plain workaday railroad watch (retrofitted, for utilitarian purposes, with replacement dial, hands and case). Its saving grace, for its long survival, would have been its status as a lever set movement assisted, no doubt, by its high jeweling.

    In its current form, the movement is presented as a rare collectible, fitted out with more appealing dial, hands and case.

    The configuration of the watch is not of the original style, in either instance.

    Out of all this comes the finding that the configuration of the first run of Ball-Waltham was varied. The varieties included pendant setting, lever setting, Brotherhood marked, jewelled to 17J and 23J. Case variations are also likely, though those are very hard to pin down after all this time. I think the dial (small Gothic numerals, RR appearing to be offset, to the right) and the hands (wine-coloured) would have been consistent throughout the run (except, of course, where a Brotherhood dial was fitted).

    As most of us know, the story of Ball watches is complex. For that reason, the book has, yet, to be written!
     
  11. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Aug 26, 2000
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    Tom:

    Since when do you believe what the sellers state?
     
  12. Paul Sullivan

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    Jan 15, 2011
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    Here is the latest Ball-Waltham ORRS First Run Research list, now up to 32.

    1 B060706 Pendant Set
    2 B060708 Setting unknown
    3 B060710 Lever set
    4 B060713 Pendant Set
    5 B060729 Pendant Set
    6 B060759 Lever set
    7 B060768 Pendant Set
    8 B060771 Setting unknown
    9 B060773 Pendant Set
    10 B060778 Setting unspecified (probably Pendant Set)
    11 B060783 Pendant Set
    12 B060809 Lever Set
    13 B060812 Pendant Set
    14 B060836 Pendant Set
    15 B060841 Pendant Set
    16 B060842 Pendant Set
    17 B060863 Lever Set
    18 B060869 Setting unknown
    19 B060890* Pendant Set
    20 B060909* Lever set (23J)
    21 B060915 Lever Set
    22 B060972 Pendant Set
    23 B061018 Setting unknown
    24 B061021 Pendant Set
    25 B061026 Pendant Set
    26 B061060 Pendant Set
    27 B061063 Setting unknown
    28 B061075 Pendant Set
    29 B061078 Pendant Set
    30 B061093 Pendant Set
    31 B061095 Pendant Set
    32 B061099 Setting unknown

    * indicates latest addition

    Paul
     
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