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Badische torsion clock - help with suspension please

zygo

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May 29, 2008
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A 400 day clock came in today for repair, needing a new suspension amongst other things and I need help deciding which strength to fit once it's been overhauled. It's fully CHROMED and bears no name or serial anywhere (including between the plates) but it does have the Badische logo (Crescent moon around a capital B) in the bottom right hand corned of the back plate. I did not think Badische made 400 day clocks under their own name but correct me if I'm wrong in the light of this logo-marked one

The plate is rectangular with no cut out for the saddle assembly but it does in fact have an eccentric adjustment screw so ruling out most of the Plates shown in Horolovar. In fact, the only plate without a cutout is Plate 1663 and it's nothing like that in terms of the hole layout . Also, it has solid pinions, solid pallets without adjustment, and a four-ball pendulum.

The plate is quite similar to the Herr in Plate 1453 but I think this might be based on the Badische as there is no cup in the base and the plate does not have rounded corners - both indicators of a later model (post 1950. I would think mine is c.1910/14 but the pivot holes and tapped screw holes seem the same, as does the saddle (though it's mounted outside instead of inside the plate but that could be by error last time it was dismantled) as there are rogue nuts inside to secure the screws). Also, I think Herr copied a lot of Schatz plate designs while he worked there, so it could be an earlier Schatz design.
The original suspension is part remaining but it's bronze so not much help in deciding upon the correct Horolovar suspension material. And the Badische plates that are shown have wide-ranging strengths. Before I make a random choice of say 40 thou, and then gradually thin it by trial and error, I wondered if anyone here had some input that could save me a little time. I don't mind thinning a suspension but if's always best to start somewhere close if you can.
 

etmb61

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Hello,

You are correct that Badische did not make 400 day clocks. They did sell clocks from several different makers so a picture of what you have would be very helpful. JUF/Schatz did supply clocks to Badische that were marked with the Crescent B logo so you could have one of them, but without seeing it we can only guess.

Eric
 

zygo

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May 29, 2008
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Thanks, Eric. It's not easy to take a photo of a highly polished chrome plate - it's like a mirror - I'll try but I think you'll mostly see the other side of my phone! But you can take it from me that the plate is exactly like Plate 1452 in Horolovar as to hole positions (screw and pivot) and exactly the same size. The only difference is that mine has a Badische logo, no writing and square corners.
 

etmb61

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I'm thinking you probably have a clock like this one:
JUF-Badische plate.jpg
This is a JUF clock. The plate is not in the guide, but like all other JUFs with a 4-ball pendulum it needs a 0.0040" spring.


To take a picture of a very shinny clock plate, position a sheet of white paper so that reflects in the plate. Position your light source so it shines on the paper and not the clock and focus on one of the pivot holes on the plate.Take the picture from a slight angle so that your camera sees the paper reflected in the plate. You should be able to get a result like this:
plate.jpg

Here is an example using a mirror:
mirror.jpg
The difference between the two shots is the white paper placed below the camera and reflected in the mirror.

Eric
 
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Schatznut

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Please give us a photo showing the mainspring barrel - if it's "backwards," i.e. the teeth are adjacent to the cover, it's probably a Huber Uhren movement.
 

zygo

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IMG_20201203_170824.jpg
Here's the long awaited photo. Similar to ETMB61's image apparently of a JUF. The barrel is counter-clockwise winding (aren't that all?) with the teeth close to the front plate. I would not be surprised from the wheel arrangement that JUF made it but for the two-part retainer on the click wheel, which is like a Schatz.
Anyway, unless someone knows better, I'll try a 40 suspension and thin it if it needs it.
 
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etmb61

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That's definitely a JUF clock! Is there a letter stamped in the lower left corner or is that just a blemish? Also, are there any markings on the pendulum?

Eric
 
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zygo

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Thanks, Eric. It actually matches the layout of other JUF movements illustrated in The Guide, bearing the names of other smaller firms. Nothing in the LH corner - must be a blemish or reflection. Nothing on the pendulum (except the usual F S arrows for regulation.
There is now a new illustration in my copy of The Guide (10th Edition) at page 175 where there was a convenient space alongside another Badische. Out of interest, has anyone else added any unreported plates to their copy of The Guide?
 

etmb61

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Thanks for the info. The only other thing I'd like to know is which motion work arrangement do you have. Is it one of these or something else?

I have not added plates to my guide. In my opinion, from simply a repair perspective, you only need one representative plate of each type (not all the markings) to identify the clock's maker and determine the parts required to fix it. For instance, I believe the guide has over 20 examples of full sized JUF plates in section 9 (I haven't counted). Most have the maker's stamp on the plate. They all use a 0.0040" suspension and a 19x36 mainspring.

Now from the historical perspective it would be nice to ID every variation that exists so you could build a time line or something like that. I've collected pictures of over 600 JUF clocks alone for research, but that hasn't aided in getting one clock running. If you're doing research then just the back plate isn't enough.

Eric
 

zygo

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May 29, 2008
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Eric,
I wish I'd seen this email before reassembly last night. I think the clock lost an hour overnight so it might need to be re-worked but in all honesty, I might just have forgotten to set the time after setting it in beat - it was late. If it did, I'll be fitting a stronger suspension over the weekend but for the movement (it's 9.30am here in the UK as I write) I shall leave the dial and hands on.
My recollection was that the finish of the motionwork was pretty unsightly (so that rules out #1 or your series of 5) - it did have a cock (so rules out #2) and the cock was mounted to the right (ruling out #4). Of the remaining two, I'd say it was like #5 but I'll post an image if I need to take the movement off the stand - removing the hands and dial wont take a moment.