Bürk Master Clock

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by RODALCO, May 5, 2011.

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  1. RODALCO

    RODALCO Registered User

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    #1 RODALCO, May 5, 2011
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
    Lately I have had a couple of request regarding a Bürk master clock ( Hauptuhr ) which were not covered in my previous posts, from a few years ago and I may as well put the info on the board so other clock minded people can benefit from it.
    Also to keep this thread active; Other members please put in any questions and I try to help out if possible.
    As said before, I have 5 of these Bürk clocks at home and three are in service on a pendulum synchroniser.
    Short video is on YouTube which I will attach a link for.
    -> posts merged by system <-
    Question asked by Frank manning,

    Hi Raymond,

    I don't know if my NAWCC message board note got through and I did find your address.

    I just purchased a Burk master clock movement. I have generally had the American master clocks and this one interested me. It is in need of a pendulum. Could you provide me a weight for the bob? Also, your picture of the suspension spring so I can make one. I could not read the dimensions of the picture you posted at one time.

    Also, I believe it probably runs on 50hz 240 volts. Do you know of a possible source for a 60 to 50hz converter? Or, could I change the motor to a 60 hz synchronous motor? Then I would need to convert the voltage up to 240 with a transformer. Any comments you could provide sure would be appreciated.

    I live in Connecticut, USA.

    My reply:


    Hi Frank,

    I have been to busy with YouTube lately and havent visited NAWCC forum.

    I prepare a few bits and pieces and check the pendulum weight.
    pendulum bob 1064 grams
    weight 412 grams
    rod 112 grams M5 diameter
    2 ferrules 30 grams which center the bob
    rod length 64 cm

    Your clock doesn't need an other motor as the accuracy of the clock is determined by the pendulum.
    The 220 Volts motor will run on 240 Volts 60 Hz, only a bit 6/5 faster and should not be an issue.
    The motor does the winding and drives the mercury contacts.
    You will need a small 120 / 240 Volts transformer rated at 10VA will be enough. and perhaps put a 560 or 680 ohm 1 watt resistor in series with one lead to keep the winding not overvolted.

    These Bürk clocks are great quality, I have 5 of them at home.

    Kind regards

    Raymond

    The email I posted to you bounced back after a week. That is why I put this question up here.
    Raymond

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGYlDTiHspI

     
  2. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi Raymond,

    Thanks for the reply with the pendulum information. Could you send your picture of the suspension to my email address at frankmanning@sbcglobal.net ? I could not read the dimensions off the one you posted earlier.

    Do you have any manual pages that would describe how to adjust the mercury switch for the winding? The way it is set now it stays closed for about 20 seconds each minute. I thought these were supposed to wind every 15 minutes.

    Also, could the motor be connected with the wires in parralel rather in series so that the motor might run off 110 volts?

    I have attached a picture of my movement. After I get the movement corrected, I will build a case for it.

    Thanks, Frank
     

    Attached Files:

  3. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Interesting program wheel, Frank. Looks like it can be programmed in 5 minute intervals to ring a bell, or switch things on and off, over a 24 hour period.
     
  4. RODALCO

    RODALCO Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    The Bürk clock winds every minute.

    On the minute shaft is an excentrik which drops the mercury switch for about 3 seconds in the ON position to activate the winding motor which drives one of the two mercury switches at the time to advance the slave clocks.
    Check if the pivots on the levers run smoothly.

    The motor is wound for single voltage only, which is 220 volts 50 Hz.

    I see if i can find that drawing and post it to you.
    that previous email didn't work.
     
  5. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi Raymond,

    Do you or does anyone else have any manual pages on how to set the arms that lead to dropping the mercury switch? I have it set so that when the eccentric cam on the seconds shaft drops the mercury switch nothing happens. Then after the seconds shaft goes for about 15 or 20 seconds something pushes the arm up further and then power is sent to the motor as the mercury switch is tilted even further.
    This doesn't sound right to me. I would think the motor should be activated as soon as the little arm drops the mercury switch.

    Frank
     
  6. Wynen

    Wynen Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hello Frank,
    long time ago, I've maintained the Bürk clocks in the schools of my home town in Germany. As far as I remember, the only thing which needs to be adjusted, was the position of the plastic excenter on the minute wheel. Please try to turn it carefully.

    Regards
    Hartmut
    -> posts merged by system <-
    FYI:
    This is the suspension of Bürk HU110 with 3/4 second pendulum, which is working in my home right now. I know, that it was replaced, so it is not the original one, but I'm quite sure, that the dimensions are correct. (sorry metric values).

    Hartmut
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hello Hartmut,

    That is great. It is a very readable picture. I have tried adjusting the eccentric position on the wheel and I guess I will keep trying on that. If you have the clock with the steel cylinder as a pendulum bob I would appreciate the dimensions of it. That appears to be what I have left to make. I do have the movement running but not correctly. It seems to wind every minute and the two mercury switches go up on alternate minutes. Then it will entirely miss a winding and the following one it will keep going until each switch has gone up once. So if I had a slave clock on it would catch it up. My email address is:

    frankmanning@sbcglobal.net.

    Thanks very much for your reply. Frank
     
  8. Edwardo

    Edwardo Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi,
    From memory, do the following;
    Remove the face
    Forward the pendulum by hand until the clock starts to rewind
    Wait until the rewind finishes.
    Move the cam (if necessary) anticlockwise until it touches the “trip” leaver
    Reattach the face and hands, with seconds hand set to 1 sec past
    Restart clock
    After a power out you may need to repeat the above
    Also: if you need to adjust the time, stop the clock with the seconds at zero; move the hands to the exact minute then restart the pendulum

    Hope this helps
    Edd

    ClockManEdd
    http://www.youtube.com/user/ClockManEdd?feature=mhee
     
  9. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Thanks Edd,

    I will get to that this weekend and get back to you next week.

    Regards, Frank
     
  10. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Agreed Frank.

    It's backward in my opinion. I think the sequence is reversed.

    I would reposition the Hg vial in it's holder by 180 degrees so that the current to the motor flows when "something pushes the arm up." Then when the seconds arbor cam follower drops, the circuit breaks.

    Or does it matter? :confused:
     
  11. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi Everyone and thanks for your help.

    After some time working to get this clock going I believe I have the sequence of events figured out. The following is a description of how a Bürk master clock works.
    In the first picture, lever “A” slowly rises to keep the pointer for the mercury switch holder in line with the cam as it rises. Since they both rise at the same rate, the mercury switch is kept fairly level with the mercury at the back end. When the cam gets to its top point the next bit of rotation allows the pointer of the mercury switch holder to drop allowing the mercury to flow to the right end and closing the circuit. That starts the motor to raise the weight. Above the weight pulley is a little bar that pushes another lever that in turn moves a lever that is between the plates but integral with the shaft for lever “A”, allowing it to stop the motor shaft when the weight reaches its top position. This procedure occurs once each minute. If the power is off for some period of time (up to 10 hours) the mercury switch will stay in a position to permit the weight to rise to its top position. This takes quite a bit of time.
    Raymond provided the weight of the cylindrical pendulum. Does anyone have the length and diameter of that cylindrical bob?
    Thanks, Frank
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Edwardo

    Edwardo Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    I hope this helps
    I drew this up a few years back for a friend
     

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    • Pend.jpg
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  13. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Thank you very much Edwardo. That is just what I needed.

    The only problem I have left is that of the two mercury switches that are used to control slave clocks. I am not sure it will matter since I don't plan on using them. However, I do like things to be correct though. For part of the time they work right; one goes fully up and then fully down. It does this for a while. Then one goes fully up and part way down. It gets out of sync. Then a little while later it is back doing it correctly.

    Frank
     
  14. Edwardo

    Edwardo Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Two common causes are;
    Old sticky greasy on the lifter shaft or
    The wires going to the mercury switches are twisted inside their shielding

    I have attached an exploded diagram to help you fault find
    Cheers
    Edd
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Hans Vrolijk

    Hans Vrolijk Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

     

    Attached Files:

  16. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Thank you Hans,

    I will try to get it translated. However, it doesn't look like it would tell me how to adjust the arm holding the mercury switch relative to the lifting arm. I am still playing with that.

    Frank
     
  17. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi, new here, just because I got a Burk.
    My motor is a 50 hz 24V, but I'm sure it will do job at 60 Hz. The pendlum is whats keeps the right speed.
    Take a look at your motor, it may work even at 1/2 voltage, so give it a try.
    Adjusting the mercury switches are not described in the manual, but it should be leveled so it gives a suitable pulse length when it moves.
    I have just asjusted the 2 switches giving the signals to the slave clocks, I tuned it down to about 3 sec pulse length, originally it was more. Toning is just done by tilting it, one screw/nut should not be to tight. You will probably see it and understand it. If you power it with 120V instead of 220 it will give you about 12-15 V signals to slave clocks. Since this are low current you could probably step it up by using an old center tapped transformer, or just connect it to your 240 outlet, (aircondition, dryer water heter, range or??)

    My job now is to tune my clock with wrong suspension spring.

    dsk
     
  18. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    My clock is working, still some tuning needed. If somone has a smart procedure for how to do this right, it would probably help me.
    The electric circutry is less of a problem, by now I'm sure 50 or 60 hz doesent matter. Whatever you have of voltage rating on the motor, you could just backfeed the transformer with 24V AC. The 50 hz motor will cope with a 6/5 voltage at 6/5 frequency. 240V are recommendable.

    dsk
     
  19. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    I just guess: The too tiny suspension spring may make the adjustment difficult, so Im trying to redesign 2 other tiny springs to form something more similar to whats original.

    Ill follow up this with more info, if it turns out well.

    dsk
     
  20. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    YES! :)
    9 day without touching it, and about 2 sec to late. (Its hard to tell exactly)
    I guess that's perfect in my eyes.

    dsk
     
  21. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    #21 dsk, Feb 21, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    :)It has just kept on running, a little up and down in speed depending on temperature?
    +/- 10 sec pr month. Really better than ever expected. When I tried a ringer for ringing in and out for the lessons did the family say stop:excited:
    dsk

    All my documentation: http://www.scribd.com/doc/137050284/BURK-master-clock
     
  22. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    I have just let it live its own life, 90 sec to fast on 90 days.

    Not sure if that is OK, but I feel comfortable with that.

    dsk
     
  23. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    #23 Uomotubo, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    Hi everybody! I've a Bürk master clock as showed in the picture. It works fine but I've no idea about programming it! The seller told me that it was in a german church to control the church bells. With tha clock there was some instructions (like ones that somebody posted) but they're not suitable for my version of clock!
    I'd like to know how set it!
    these are the pictures!
    $_12.jpg
    1tsavq.jpg
     
  24. dsk

    dsk Registered User

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    #24 dsk, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2017
    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    It is some different from mine, but mine are programmed by threaded pins in the holes of the 24 hr dial. Different function if inserted from front or rear. It may be a little room under the pendulum for storing an envelope with those pins.

    dsk
     
  25. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    #25 Tinker Dwight, Aug 12, 2014
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    The switches seem to be missing as well.
    They'd be on the block next to the wheel.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  26. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    #26 Uomotubo, Aug 12, 2014
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    Re: Bürk Master Clock

    yes, most of the clock have the switch on that hole on the right, and at the beginning I was thinking that something missing on my clock, but I've found another on ebay like mine, without switch on the right...
     
  27. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #27 harold bain, Aug 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
    I suppose it is not uncommon to remove unneeded parts on program clocks, if the person does not want to use the programmer. Seems to happen often on master clocks, when running slaves is not a concern (this isn't something I agree with, just my observations).
     
  28. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    #28 Uomotubo, Aug 12, 2014
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    I agree: on mine for example there aren't the two mercury switches that control slaves clocks! But this was used in a church to control the bells, so there must be some way to set it, I suppose...
     
  29. kdf

    kdf Registered User

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    It should be programmed by inserting threaded pins on that big wheel with 24h dial, but obviously switches activated by those pins are missing (and maybe some levers too).

    Can you post bigger picture of the device on the left side below the movement?
     
  30. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Sure!! Here's some pictures
    j7cn4p.jpg
    veryfm.jpg

    On the picture below, the free yellow wire is now connected on his pin.
    2ia68ol.jpg

    If you need other pictures just ask!!
     
  31. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Nobody knows how to set my clock? :(
     
  32. eskmill

    eskmill Registered User
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    Yes Umotubo, nobody knows how to set your clock because it is missing the parts to control the musical chimes control that you want to control.

    When faced with a problem like yours, you must study the functions of the Burk master controller and the functions and control of the musical chime control device you want to have under control of the Burk master clock.

    Once you have a clear understanding of the function of both machines, then you must "invent" a circuit using the Burk master timer, to start and stop the musical bells or chimes controller.

    I would return to the person from whom you obtained the clock and the chime controller. I would ask him the location of the Church where the clock was used. Then visit the Church Vicar and ask for any instructions that were obtained with the Clock and chimes control.
     
  33. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Thank you for your answer! For first I've contact the seller (It's german, like the church where he found it) I hope that will answer...
    Then, a friend of mine, an engineer, told me that the mechanism on the left its a cyclic programmer/timer. Now we try to understand how it works!
    Stay tuned!
     
  34. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    #34 Tinker Dwight, Aug 22, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2014
    It looks like there is some circuit behind what would have been the
    pin timing wheel. It is covered with a half circle of plastic.
    I suspect there are switches that control the start and
    stop for the motor that runs the on the unit at the bottom left.
    The unit at the bottom left looks like it has a number of switches
    and cams. I suspect that it has the actual sequence programmed
    as the cams. If so, it is not easily reprogrammed unless you create
    new cams for the desired sequences.
    I would guess it is used to play some typical church tunes.
    I'd think that some of the cams are used with the switches
    below the grey half circle. Some of the cams would run actuators
    on the bells or gongs.
    Just curious, what is the voltage of the motor on the lower left
    cam unit. It should have a label on it ( it does look like a stepper
    motor, though, and not an AC motor ).
    Tinker Dwight

    Just looked at the pictures again. I see that the cams are driven by
    a 50Hz motor. I'd guess the pink wires coming out are for the start
    and stop control while the yellow wires coming out are for the
    actuators.
    ( Think door bell chimes. One can use the coils and hang a number
    of cut iron pipes for the chimes )
    Tinker Dwight
     
  35. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Here some pictures:
    30mth7r.jpg
    2w1wcpt.jpg
    289h9pv.jpg

    The motor works on 220V and behind the 24h wheel there are 11 contacts, that lead to the pin on the cams mechanism with the pink wires.
     
  36. Tinker Dwight

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    #36 Tinker Dwight, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
    The pink wires would control where and how long the cam motor
    runs. You'll most likely have to connect some lights to figure the
    sequence each cam produces.
    Most of the yellow wires are from the cams but it looks like two
    would be motor power. You should trace things out with an ohm meter
    for a while and make a schematic drawing of what goes where.
    Once you understand the cam wiring, you should be able to connect
    wires and manually advance the wheel to see what and when
    each sequence happens.
    Make sure to only do the ohm meter test with no power of or you'll be
    looking for a new ohm meter.
    I would guess that there is a stepper motor that turns the large aluminum
    wheel. That would be powered from the clock. It can be removed while
    working out the cam sequences.
    It is strange that there are only 11 switches under the 24H wheel. I'd
    have expected 12.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  37. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Maybe I've not checked properly the pink wires, me too I'd have expected 12 wires as the hours... but there are 13 pins: one is the yellow one (that I've found unsoldered) e the last one goes on the "St" pin on the top on the clock...
     
  38. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Tinker was right: there are 12 pins under the wheel, I've checked. The last one is connected with the last contact under the wheel and either with "St" pin.
    And finally, I've found out how it works: It chimes on two bells, every quarter, as the Big Ben. It send the signal to chime on the first bell 1, 2, 3 or 4 times at the first, second, third and fourth quarter respectively. Then, on a second bell it chimes the hours.
    For example, at 11.45 it strikes 3 times on the first bell. At 12.00, it strikes 4 times on the first bell and twelve times on the second bell.
    "V" and "St" stands for "viertel" and "stunden": "quarter" and "hours" respectively!
    How it works it's too difficult for me to explain it in english and too long... I'm sorry!
     
  39. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    If it only did two bells, you could use a door bell
    chime. I see you figured the St.
    I'd think the contacts under the wheel and the arc
    of contacts in the cam box would work together to
    control the motor for the cam. It sounds like you have
    already figured this out.
    Cool clock.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  40. Uomotubo

    Uomotubo Registered User

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    Not exactly: the cams' motor takes the 220V to work from the cam 1, 2, 3 and 4. And each cam (1, 2, 3 or 4) receive the current every quarter hour with the round contact that gears with the big wheel.
    The first cam without number is always in contact and the last one "V", it send the signals to strike the quarter bell.
    At the full hour, after striking the 4th quarter, the cams shaft continue to spin, and that contact on the top, will touch the 12 pins on the top of the mechanism. Without the system under the wheel, at each hour the clock would strikes always 12 times. That's the function: it will allow the bell to strike 3 times at 3 hour, 5 times at 5 hour, etc.
    I understand that it's very difficult for me to explain (but is it also in my language, because the mechanism is complicated to explain).
     

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