auto beat adjusters

[glr1109]

the last few weeks I've had an unusual number of gf movements in which these are not working adequetly. I normally do not clean these...just brush/wipe clean.

I have two back in the shop at this time. After monkeying around with them till frustration lead me to swish in "One Dip". That made one work well and the other no change.

Considering that they are in gf clocks. What would you suggest?

greg

 

[wingardclocks]

what does not work adequetly? what is it doing, or not doing?

 

[shiloh1899]

One drop of oil from a well meaning but not knowing owner will kill one. I get the oil out and still have to restore the compression to get that right amount of squeeky fit. I have made a few gadgets to do it with, one a version of a crows foot.

 

[Patrick R]

Greg

Using one dip I believe is the recommended method and find it works well. How ever, putting them in cleaners is a no no. Just so you know you can buy a new replacement at Empire Clocks, for about $15 good luck.
Pat

 

[harold bain]

I had a new movement with the opposite problem last week. Auto setter too tight to work, had to set the beat manually.

 

[Patrick R]

Harold Bain

Personally I wished all of were that way. That way when you get in beat, it should stay that way as long as the customer doesn't move the clock, or jerk the pendulum around. On the auto beat mechanism a lot of customers , and some clock guys don't know how to set the auto beat mechanism up. So I will state the proper way to do this as per an Howard Miller Instruction Manual.

Move the pendulum to the far left or far right of the center and release.( My advice on this is to be very careful not to go to far to the left or right if the clock in question has glass on both side. ) Then let the clock run for a few minutes until the pendulum settles down into an even swinging motion.

 

[harold bain]

You're right Patrick, better too tight than too loose. I'm sure it will eventually loosen up a bit, but I suspect they get a lot of returns with the too loose problem, so they may be going the other way with it to correct this problem.

 

[glr1109]

The problem I'm having is not in "how to set it up". The problem is that it will not center or put itself "in beat". It will stay around the 65% mark.

In particular the customer moved the gf, and followed my directions as far as removing the weights/pendulum. I went to his home and could not get it to balance itself. I brought it home and still can't. I can put it in beat manually....but certainly not the customer.

Jim Derosier states that there is not a replacement.

greg

 

[shutterbug]

The sloppy adjusters are a real problem. If you can't increase friction by forcing a tighter fit you may have to replace them with a modified friction fit (home made) or a solid one. There was one interesting repair shown here not too long ago. I think it might have been in the "Hall of shame" posting. If push comes to shove you could do something like that. Use the "search" function and see what others have done. I've considered using a bit of loc-tite to tighten the fitting, but have not actually tested it. Let us know what you finally do to fix it, OK?

 

[Patrick R]

Greg as I mentioned above you can buy a brand new one, that can be shipped to your home in about three days.
Why put you self Thur all those headaches. If you buy one from Empires for approx 15 to 20 bucks. Also you will have the confidence that your customer will be happy.

 

[glr1109]

Greg as I mentioned above you can buy a brand new one, that can be shipped to your home in about three days.
Why put you self Thur all those headaches. If you buy one from Empires for approx 15 to 20 bucks. Also you will have the confidence that your customer will be happy.

I would love to however as I stated before...Jim Derosier = Empire Clock, states there are no replacements for this one, its an Urgos.

greg

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

We do have a limited supply of the auto beat verges and escape wheels for the Urgos, depending on the model (UW#). We also have the complete movement.

 

[RJSoftware]

Seems like this might be a nice little chunk of change one could make, if you find a way to make the repair last reasonably long.

Me, I would be tempted to make the fitting permanent/solid, maybe super glue.

Then rely on good ol manual beat setting. Probably will run for years and years.

RJ

 

[glr1109]

This one is a UW32575 or a UW3257c depending on which number you want to use. By way of experiance of the quality of the movements or if you'd rather...my problem with buying new is...if it didn't work the first time because of design, or is near impossible to repair why would I recommend to a customer to buy a another.

If it were a "fluke", I would feel differently.

Let me know if I'm wrong in my thinking.

greg

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

The new Urgos movement uses the Hermle escapement and verge. Much better than the original, but you cannot put the Hermle verge in the old Urgos unit. You basic choices are to repair the verge you have, buy a new Urgos verge, or replace the movement.

 

[harold bain]

Greg, it would be nice if we could give our customers back a quality movement, like was made 70-100 years ago, but they really don't make them like that any more. However, if the customer has enjoyed 20-30 years out of the modern movement, I find it reasonable to tell them its useful life is over, and I can replace it for about the same price as an overhaul (something I wouldn't ever consider doing with the 70-100 year old movement).
But if you are talking about a movement of less than 20 years or a well maintained movement in good shape, that only has a autobeat problem, by all means deal with this problem.

 

[glr1109]

The new Urgos movement uses the Hermle escapement and verge. Much better than the original, but you cannot put the Hermle verge in the old Urgos unit. You basic choices are to repair the verge you have, buy a new Urgos verge, or replace the movement.

Will the new hermle verge work with new hermle escapement(wheel?)?
In this case would the suspension rod and pendulum hanger need to be changed also?
What would be this price?
what would be the price of a new movement?

greg

 

[Bill Bassett]

I had a vienna regulator with a verge that was so loose it would not stay in beat. The clock worked fine for me on the test stand, but I suspect the customer would not leave the pendulum alone. After three or four house calls with the same complaint, I used a drop of Locktite (blue) and the customer was finally satisfied. I do not know about superglue, but Loctite is an industrial product and designed to be used with steel and brass -- think corrosion. As to the ethics of this solution, I reasoned that customer satisfaction was the most important value. The beat is adjustable by a screw, so subsequent repairers should not curse my workmanship. The final result was no different than a verge without automatic beat adjustment.

 

[shutterbug]

Thanks, Bill. I thought that would be a workable solution and appreciate your verification. Not the best way to solve a problem, but in my opinion no worse than sticking in an "auto adjustment" that is plagued with problems

 

[Tony Ambruso]

This one is a UW32575 or a UW3257c depending on which number you want to use.

greg

Greg, I had a thread on the MB a several months back on this issue. I had an Urgos 03 series movement with the self-adjusting Vulliamy escapement. It is a real problem with these self-adjusters, especially if any oil is introduced to the situation. Clock owners are being encouraged by manufacturers to oil their clocks, and, unfortunately, they do not have enough information to do it properly, despite their having more than enough oil. They like to oil that self-adjusting pallet for some reason.

It was a difficult repair because I elected not to use any type of adheasive, which I may do in the future when all the parts are exhausted.

Steve Conover published a couple of articles on the repair of this situation. The issues were February 1991, which did not directly apply to the Urgos model I was having a problem with. Then, there were two issues in 2007, June and July.

This is the link to my previous thread.
[attachment=null]Click Here

This is what my self-adjusting anchor looked like when taken apart. It is possible to tighten the tension spring just a bit to obtain more "grab."

 

[Patrick R]

RJ, I was thinking if a guy had an old auto beat that he wanted to experiment, being the type, that's has the rubber installed in them. You could try using a small amount of MEK Methel Ethel Ketone, or regular transmission fluid in small amounts.

First I have a warning, MEK is bad stuff.

If my memory serves me correctly MEK or Transmission fluid, will cause certain types of o-rings to swell up.

Just so everyone knows, there are all types of rubber o-rings. Some are for fuel cell some are for transmissions ets.


So if this is the case it might swell up the rubber in the auto beat that have rubber in them.
I am sure ill get beat up on this one, but I am just being myself, Irish!
Pat

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

To answers your questions (glr1109) the Urgos UW 32 series now made by Hermle uses a Hermle escape wheel and a Hermle verge. The movemet itself comes with a specially designed leader (pendulum hanger) to fit the Urgos pendulum top and be the proper length so no adjustment in length should be necessary. The Hermle parts cannot be used in the old Urgos movement. Kindly contact me privately for pricing or it can also be found on our website.

 

[alskogen]

for us dummies what is a gf movement al

 

[harold bain]

for us dummies what is a gf movement al

Al, gf=grandfather in our secret clock code

 

[Bryan Prindle]

Tony:

I don't think it would be that hard to make another spring. From what I'm seeing the spring shown could be improved upon. First I would make the spring out of a larger diameter material, and instead of the "V" shaped middle, I would make it a "U" shape with the same diameter as the recess it fits in. The U shape would "grab" the arbor much better that the V as the V only makes contact with the arbor in two small places on the V. Hardly a lot of bite there.

Of course this solution would require that you have some spring stock, craftsman skills, know how to turn it into a spring and finally, have a customer who was willing to pay for all this.

Sounds like a lot of ifs.

But if it was my clock I'd give it a try.

Bryan

 

[Tony Ambruso]

Actually, Bryan, it is fairly difficult to make that spring. It was only .022" in diameter and 7/8" in length. Tempering the spring to the correct hardness after its formation proved to be quite unproductive. All my attempts failed to obtain the correct hardness. They either snapped on installation due to being glass hard or they were too soft to maintain the correct tension.

It is very difficult to make springs correctly without a proper kiln. I know we do it but spring technology today is very difficult to reproduce in a small shop. There just wasn't enough hand/eye coordination for me to see the correct color and quench with enough alacrity to obtain the required results. That little piece of steel, while being heated, went through the colors at lightning speed. Frankly, I never saw any color change except red. It was not worth the trouble.

I solved that problem after many days of research, work and talking with experts, Butterworth and Conover. Nobody suggested making that spring. But I did try and now I know why they didn't recommend that as a solution.