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Please ID this Clock Any info on this mantel clock please!

Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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Hello,
I have recently purchased this mantel clock.
It has no stamps or labels in/on the case or the movement.
It's a time-only clock(Or rather, timepiece). which I believe is either American or German.
Interesting abstract glass tablet design.
About 12" tall

Any info on what type of clock this is, a model name, who made it, and when, would be really helpful.
See pictures attached.
116_1478.JPG 116_1479.JPG 116_1480.JPG 116_1481.JPG 116_1482.JPG
Thanks,
Dugald McIntosh
 

Jim Hartog

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Hello Dugald,

The angled foot of the escape bridge indicates that the movement is a Jerome/New Haven product, I think. I checked my New Haven book by Tran Duy Ly but the only one that I found that was similar had the winding hole at 6 o'clock and yours is at the 3.
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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Hello Dugald,

The angled foot of the escape bridge indicates that the movement is a Jerome/New Haven product, I think. I checked my New Haven book by Tran Duy Ly but the only one that I found that was similar had the winding hole at 6 o'clock and yours is at the 3.
Hi Jim,
Interesting bit of info. Could it be an undocumented movement or maybe a different maker copying New Haven's designs?

Thanks
Dugald
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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This type of clock is generally called a "cottage clock". Made by a variety of makers, both domestic and foreign.

The Germans copied these clocks extensively. They even put American looking labels in them! They are often confused with American ones.

Yours is American. The wood used for the backboard looks like an American pine rather than a European fir. There are other stylistic clues as well.

This one is time only and runs for only 30 hours between windings. They may also be time and alarm, time and strike. Some ran for 8 days. The more interesting movements may be "ladder", "upside-down", round plate and so on.

Not unusual to find them unlabeled.

With just a little effort, a search of the Forums will yield many postings about cottage clocks.

Re: the movement. As an NAWCC member, you could access this excellent article about the movements found in cottage clocks and their identification. Here's a link to it.

317_709a.pdf (nawcc.org)

To me it looks similar to what the author calls a "type 3.3" shown in figure 25 of that article in a clock produced by Jerome and Co. I'm sure others will state their opinions.

RM
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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This type of clock is generally called a "cottage clock". Made by a variety of makers, both domestic and foreign.

The Germans copied these clocks extensively. They even put American looking labels in them! They are often confused with American ones.

Yours is American. The wood used for the backboard looks like an American pine rather than a European fir. There are other stylistic clues as well.

This one is time only and runs for only 30 hours between windings. They may also be time and alarm, time and strike. Some ran for 8 days. The more interesting movements may be "ladder", "upside-down", round plate and so on.

Not unusual to find them unlabeled.

With just a little effort, a search of the Forums will yield many postings about cottage clocks.

Re: the movement. As an NAWCC member, you could access this excellent article about the movements found in cottage clocks and their identification. Here's a link to it.

317_709a.pdf (nawcc.org)

To me it looks similar to what the author calls a "type 3.3" shown in figure 25 of that article in a clock produced by Jerome and Co. I'm sure others will state their opinions.

RM
Thanks for the info, as of yet I am not a NAWCC Member, so I have no access to such resources sadly. However, I will see if I can gather any more information by browsing the forums...

Thanks again
Dugald
 

Steven Thornberry

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Could it be an undocumented movement or maybe a different maker copying New Haven's designs?
This definitely a New Haven movement (Jerome & Co. was a trade name frequently used by New Haven). It is a predecessor to the New Haven movement that winds at 6 o'clock, as mentioned by Jim Hartog. I have a couple of clocks with this particular movement, one with a Jerome & Co. label, and one with a New Haven label. See below (the movement in the clock with the NH label is short a few pieces).

Cottage 3 o'clock.JPG Cottage 3 o'clock mvmt front.JPG Cottage 3 o'clock mvmt back.JPG Cottage 3 o'clock label.JPG

NH Cottage 3'oclock.JPG NH Cottage 3'oclock Mvmt.jpg NH Cottage 3'oclock label 1.JPG

The "head-and-shoulders" style of the escape wheel bridge dates your movement to sometime prior to 1870, which was about when New Haven introduced a tapered style, as shown on the movement below, which winds at six o'clock. I can't recall seeing a "winds-at-six" movement with any style of escape wheel bridge but the tapered.

No. 251 Movement Front.JPG

The "3'oclock-wind" movement is apparently an early New Haven/Jerome & Co. product. Per the (NAWCC Bulletin) article mentioned in post # 4 above, it is also found in a clock bearing a Brewster & Co. label. Brewster & Co. was in business between 1855 and 1860. However, I am not suggesting that your clock is from the late 1850's; the 1860's seems right.

I see you found my earlier thread. I hope it is as clear as mud to you as it was to me. o_O
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Thanks for the info, as of yet I am not a NAWCC Member, so I have no access to such resources sadly. However, I will see if I can gather any more information by browsing the forums...

Thanks again
Dugald
Interesting.

Just realized you are in the UK.

If I remember correctly, Jerome & Co. was a label used by NH for export? That's the label in the clock I found in the article with what looks like your movement, FWIW.

There's a member who goes by the moniker of "Jerome Collector" who knows all things Jerome/NH.

He would be the best source of info.

By the way, you may have already seen this already, but at the very beginning of this Forum General Clock Discussions, there is a section called "Sticky Threads". If you look there, this is a subcategory, "Post your (maker's name) clocks". Under that listing, there are threads devoted to Jerome and New Haven. Might be interesting to peruse those areas?

Even if you don't find your exact clock, still lots of good reading and stuff to learn.

RM
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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This definitely a New Haven movement (Jerome & Co. was a trade name frequently used by New Haven). It is a predecessor to the New Haven movement that winds at 6 o'clock, as mentioned by Jim Hartog. I have a couple of clocks with this particular movement, one with a Jerome & Co. label, and one with a New Haven label. See below (the movement in the clock with the NH label is short a few pieces).

View attachment 624390 View attachment 624389 View attachment 624388 View attachment 624387

View attachment 624393 View attachment 624392 View attachment 624391

The "head-and-shoulders" style of the escape wheel bridge dates your movement to sometime prior to 1870, which was about when New Haven introduced a tapered style, as shown on the movement below, which winds at six o'clock. I can't recall seeing a "winds-at-six" movement with any style of escape wheel bridge but the tapered.

View attachment 624394

The "3'oclock-wind" movement is apparently an early New Haven/Jerome & Co. product. Per the (NAWCC Bulletin) article mentioned in post # 4 above, it is also found in a clock bearing a Brewster & Co. label. Brewster & Co. was in business between 1855 and 1860. However, I am not suggesting that your clock is from the late 1850's; the 1860's seems right.

I see you found my earlier thread. I hope it is as clear as mud to you as it was to me. o_O
Thanks Steven, that's all my questions answered!
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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Interesting.



If I remember correctly, Jerome & Co. was a label used by NH for export? That's the label in the clock I found in the article with what looks like your movement, FWIW.


RM
I have a "Jerome & Co" New Haven clock, so it was most likely given that name when exported to the UK...

I will now peruse the Sticky Threads, perhaps it will answer some questions of my other clocks too!

Dugald
 

Dugald McIntosh

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Thanks everyone for helping me find out all this information!
I just wonder, is there anything to be said about the reverse painted tablet?

Dugald
 

Steven Thornberry

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Thanks everyone for helping me find out all this information!
I just wonder, is there anything to be said about the reverse painted tablet?

Dugald
The tablet seems to be a typically colorful New Haven tablet with what I will call a straight-line design. Nothing particularly special or out of the ordinary one way or the other, IMO.

BTW and FWIW, I found in my files an example of a NH 3'oclock-wind movement with a tapered escape wheel bridge. This suggests that the 3 o'clock wind survived until 1870 at least, perhaps beyond. Always keeping mind that the 1870 change-over date is approximate. However, my files are by no means complete.
 
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jmclaugh

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I have a "Jerome & Co" New Haven clock, so it was most likely given that name when exported to the UK...

Dugald
Chauncey Jerome was exporting clocks to the UK before New Haven was formed, he was the first American maker to do so with any success so yes his name had more appeal there. He had an interesting life and not an unimportant one in horology.
 
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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Thanks everyone for helping me find out all this information!
I just wonder, is there anything to be said about the reverse painted tablet?

Dugald
Seems to have survived basically intact.

Decorated with a colorful transfer. Typical of what I have seen by this maker.

If you like clock tablets, permit me to go a bit off topic...as I often do.

Again, look in the sticky thread section for “Fenn” & do a search on the Forums as well under that name.

In the 19th Century, he produced some of my favorite tablets using hand cut stencils made from scrap paper (!) as well as free hand geometric tablets. Both types may coexist in the same clock. Unique Americana not seen in clocks produced outside the US.

Have fun. There is a new world opening before you? And it started with a rather humble little clock.

RM
 

Dugald McIntosh

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Again, look in the sticky thread section for “Fenn” & do a search on the Forums as well under that name.

In the 19th Century, he produced some of my favorite tablets using hand cut stencils made from scrap paper (!) as well as free hand geometric tablets. Both types may coexist in the same clock. Unique Americana not seen in clocks produced outside the US.


RM
Some stunning designs there. Were clocks with these Fenn tablets exported to the UK at all? I would love to get my hands on one...

Thanks
Dugald
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Some stunning designs there. Were clocks with these Fenn tablets exported to the UK at all? I would love to get my hands on one...

Thanks
Dugald
Good question.

They may have?

Check eBay, especially the US site. I know there are some listed now.

I have been surprised to learn what has made it across the Atlantic. For example, there is a German collector who posts regularly who has found American wooden works clocks over there.

A US sellers willingness to ship beyond even the lower 48 states can be a sticking point, not to mention the cost.

RM
 
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Jerome collector

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RM teed it up nicely for me, but all I'm going to accomplish is a big swing-and-a-miss. One thing that I can add is that New Haven referred to the model shown by the OP, in their 1880 and 1889 catalogs, as the Cottage, No. 2. How's that for an imaginative name?

I agree with Steven that the movement is a New Haven product, likely pre-dating 1870. I also agree with his assessment that an 1860s date feels right. The tablet and dial strike me as more 1860s than late 1850s, but that's entirely subjective. It's unfortunate the label has not survived, because that might have provided additional clues. Which is my segue into the speculation below...

Following up on the two examples Steven posted, I'm going to take this thread off on a bit of a tangent. Steven's examples have labels that I'd refer to as "early" labels. In doing so, I won't attempt to put a date range on what I mean by "early". However, I will point out that these early labels are very, very similar to ones used by Chauncey Jerome (see below) in the early-mid 1850s (up until his bankruptcy in February 1856). New Haven was originally formed to supply movements to the Jerome Manufacturing Co. At what point did New Haven start independently marketing clocks under their own label? Is it possible that, by the mid-1850s, the two companies were selling essentially identical clocks (aside from labels), with movements being supplied by New Haven and cases supplied in turn to New Haven by Jerome? Ultimately, what I'm asking is whether it is a possibility that Steven's Jerome & Co. is actually a pre-Jerome bankruptcy clock, made for the foreign market under the "Jerome & Co." label?

Nothing better to do on a Sunday than ask questions without answers!

Mike
140621-1-2.jpg
 
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Steven Thornberry

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Ultimately, what I'm asking is whether it is a possibility that Steven's Jerome & Co. is actually a pre-Jerome bankruptcy clock, made for the foreign market under the "Jerome & Co." label?
Interesting and intriguing question, Mike. Does the implied suggestion then entail a date for my Jerome & Co clock of, say, ca.1855? By taking that year, I am also factoring in the Brewster & Co. clock in Lee Smith's article, which has the same case, same movement, and possibly the same label (unfortunately not shown in the article, but the wording mentioned by Smith matches that on the label in my Jerome & Co. timepiece). The dates for Brewster & Co. are 1855 to 1860; so, it could fit in the scenario.

Just to add another tangent, Seth Thomas made OG-base cottage clocks beginning in the early1850's (accepting Owen Burt's research). Maybe some copying and/or competition in play here? But there's another Sunday afternoon question, and I'm not even snowbound.
 
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Jerome collector

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Steven,
I wish I knew of some way to nail down manufacture date for early Jerome & Co. clocks. Despite the existence of a Jerome & Co. catalog from 1852, the conventional wisdom is that Jerome was selling these clocks identifying the maker as "Chauncey Jerome" rather than Jerome & Co. If yours isn't a c. 1855 Jerome & Co., it's likely not later than the late 1850s.
Mike
 

Jessk09

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This looks like a cottage clock made in the United States, most likely Conn. . Here is a photo of what appears to be the same clock in Palmer’s A treasury of American clocks

image.jpg
 
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Steven Thornberry

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This looks like a cottage clock made in the United States, most likely Conn. . Here is a photo of what appears to be the same clock in Palmer’s A treasury of American clocks
It was identified earlier in this thread as a New Haven cottage clock.
 
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