any idea who made this?

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by mikeald, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

    Mar 4, 2010
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    A friend in work randomly gave me this clock today, so that I can try to find a replacement front bezel for it.

    Any ideas of how old this might be? Or who made it etc? :confused:

    On the dial below the '6', it simply say's 'foreign'.

    Thanks a lot

    Mike 85799.jpg 85800.jpg 85803.jpg
     
  2. Dave B

    Dave B Banned

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    I'd like to see the chime barrel. If it is made by wrapping a piece of sheet metal around a form, and has the "pins" made by stamping out portions of it, the movement is probably a Junghans.

    I have attached a couple of photos of a Jughans barrel, to show what I mean. (The two odd "pins" are repairs I made, to replace ones that were broken off, so ignore those.)

    Also, look at teh hammer tails. Junghans is, so far as I know, the only manufacturer that used a reverse curve to act as a stop for the tail. 85813.jpg 85814.jpg 80029.jpg 80027.jpg
     
  3. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Mike, it looks like about 1930's, and German.
     
  4. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Hi Dave,

    Nope - it is definitely not one of those.

    The chime barrel is made of brass

    Hi harold - I was also thinking 1930's, but the maker is a mystery:???:?

    Thanks

    Mike
     
  5. Dave B

    Dave B Banned

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    Mike - Did you try removing the movement (or dial) so that you can see the front plate? Perhaps there is a trademark on it that is not repeated on the rear plate. I have seen some German movements that were like that.
     
  6. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Not yet Dave,

    I will do that tomorrow, as I need to remove the dial and bezel, inorder to measure up and hopefully find a replacement.

    I will post back if I discover anything....

    Mike
     
  7. Colo Tom

    Colo Tom Registered User

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    Mike, try taking a cloth and dampen it with a little acetone, rub the top of the clock and see if there is a manufacturer name hidden underneath, :p:rolleyes:
     
  8. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #8 harold bain, Mar 2, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
    Sounds like a good way to remove the finish to check what kind of wood it's made of:eek::rolleyes:.
    Never heard of any makers autographing their cases under the finish.
     
  9. Hayson

    Hayson Registered User

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    A guess, probably wrong, but I think it may be Badische.
     
  10. Albert Antonelli

    Albert Antonelli Registered User
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    I see two pictures, the first set of pics is about a bezel, the movement is most likely a movement from the 1960's and it is either a Jauch or urgos I have worked on one lately and the suspension and set up on the back plate looks like either of those two companies, the other set of pictures, that is definitely a Junghans made in either the late 20's and most likely in the 1930's.
     
  11. Hayson

    Hayson Registered User

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    I can't make any claim to be able to categorically identify the maker, but I will say that the movement is extremely similar to one I worked on some years ago which was the owners parents wedding gift from some time in the mid 1930's. I also have doubts about how many truly art deco cases would have been getting manufactured in the 1960's and this case and dial and hands look straight out of the 1930's. Just an opinion and if I'm wrong it wouldn't be the first time...
     
  12. R&A

    R&A Registered User

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    Looks similar to an English Smiths movement or an Enfield.< maybe wrong spelling. But most of those are stamped.

    H/C
     
  13. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Thanks for the replies guys,

    I can confirm that there are no markings on the front plate either....:(

    I can also tell you that the dial is not actually removeable from the circular door frame.

    THe dial and door frame is all one piece - I have not seen that before....

    Thanks

    Mike
     
  14. Mike Phelan

    Mike Phelan Registered User

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    #14 Mike Phelan, Mar 4, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
    It's German. Both Smiths and Enfield (who were amalgamated with Smiths in the 1930s) only made a few different 3-train movements, and underslung ones didn't arrive until immediately before WW2.
    Later 1950s clocks have a nut, not a pin, to attach minute hand.

    I've never seen any markings on these apart from those on the back plate. That doesn't mean there never were any!
     
  15. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Well I have just spent the last 4 hours trying to fix the chime train on this clock :mad:.

    Here is my story:

    I removed the movement, and started testing it etc... And discovered that the hammers kept on 'sticking'.

    So I removed the 'top wheel' on the outside of the rear plate (sorry I do not know what this wheel is called). So of course at this point I had effectively 'bypassed' the hammers completely.

    So I ran the train again to see what would happen. And I discovered that the train was still barely moving :eek:. I had to give one of the wheels a bit of a nudge to set it going!!!

    I let the spring down then and checked for any obvious bent arbors etc, but all was fine, except for one slightly worn bushing. The endshake all seemed ok, and the side shake also seemed ok :confused:

    So I stripped the entire movement, checked all the arbors closely and then assembled the chime side only, wheel by wheel (and I replaced the bushing at the same time, just in case).

    I had got to the stage whereby all wheels were in place except for the fly pinion, and the train ran perfectly with just the slightest bit of force. Great I thought! :)

    Then I put the fly pinion back in and the entire train immediately became stiff again and would hardly budge!!!

    I checked the fly pinion and the fly bushings AGAIN and they seemed fine.

    I repeated this procedure a few times and concluded the same thing each time - That as soon as the fly was put back into the train, then everything seizes up :eek:

    I then checked each wheel individually inbetween the plates, I gave them a good spin and waited for a nice smooth stop, and all was fine, including the fly pinion!!!!!!!!!

    So in the end I got a tiny broach and gave it a very gentle twirl inside each of the fly pinion bushings. I then re assembled wheel by wheel testing along the way, and guess what:???:?

    It worked PERFECTLY :D.

    Although I still have to put the rest of the wheels back between the plates tomorrow...

    This drove me nuts, and I am still confused by it all.....

    Aren't clocks fun:???:

    Cheers

    Mike
     
  16. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Agreed Mike clocks are fun.
    I say too German maker, but dont know who.
    Looks well made.I too never heard of a makers name under the finish, that,s new to me.
     
  17. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Hi Kevin,

    It is a nice case, but some of the veneer is peeling away :(.

    And the movement very nearly ended up getting launched across the kitchen today :eek:

    THis was a weird fault...

    I have had this happen on a french wall clock a while ago, but I could clearly see a bent arbor, so that was an obvious fix.

    Speak soon....

    Mike
     
  18. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Hi Mike i have a nice German mantle clock with a sad case as well.But its too nice not to restore.Glad your movement is running.
    There is much to learn on this subject.Glad to hear you are sticking with it and learning more.:):)
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Probably a previous repairer made the fly bushings too tight, and either didn't want to take it apart again, or concluded that it would fix itself in time. What you did is what he should have done many years ago :)
     
  20. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    Hi SB,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I will be re assembling the entire clock soon.

    It is particulary awkward because the nuts to loosen the plates are on the front of the movement :eek:

    Cheers

    Mike
     
  21. Dave B

    Dave B Banned

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    The second set of photos are of an A12 (early half, 1912) Junghans movement I have in the shop. I only put them up to show what I believe are features peculiar to Junghans, to see if Mike could identify his unknown movement with any of them.
     
  22. Hayson

    Hayson Registered User

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    Are you sure you couldn't undo the blind thumb nuts on the back plate Mike? The one I remember doing some years ago which was very similar came apart that way.
     
  23. any400day

    any400day Registered User
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    Hi Mike,

    The following thread has some information about your clock's ID.

    Vic
     
  24. mikeald

    mikeald Registered User

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    hayson - yep the thumb nuts cam off thanks!!!!

    any400day - Thanks for the link, that looks very similar.

    Cheers

    Mike
     

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