$ Antique Tower Clock: Any Clue To Its Value And Vintage?

prideofmatchingham

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Saw two tower clocks mechanisms today which must have been taken out from some old ramshackle clock tower which may have been the pride of some city at some point of time. One is solid brass with iron and another seems to be of mostly iron. Both are single weight and the 'steel rope' seems awesome. Wonder if these can have any value? and which make and vintage could it have been? (I could not find visible marks but must admit that it was under layers and layers of dust!)

Just feel that if restored, it would be great! How much would be its value, if atall? Will it be practical or foolish to try and restore and put this at home?
POM
PS: Two different mechanisms haave got mixed up. But ofcourse discerning eyes like yours can make which is which.
 

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soaringjoy

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POM, as for me, I cannot determine the makers, let alone any valuations that might
apply to the collector's markets in India.
Tower clock movements are to be found at reknown clock fairs here in Germany, but
of course, only a certain clientel has interests.
Prices of the movements in pristine restored condition are very high and even "as is"
movements range in upper levels.

To get your movements ID'd, I suggest you post them in the Tower Clocks forum.
 

prideofmatchingham

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Thanks SJ!

Well, to tell you the truth, there wont be any value here in India as people are much too busy making both ends meet rather than worry about esoteric things like heritage and antique. Unfortunately, patronage to these things are on the wane. I was thinking in world market context.
Posted in Tower section.
POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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Thing weights rougly 40 KGs-roughly 80 pounds-, its single weight weighs roughly 10 KGs- 20 pounds- and its handle which holds the hands (what is it called?) weighs roughly 2 kgs- 4 pounds. Total seems to be around 60 Kgs I suppose.
What do you suggest? Can it not be made to work at home on a wooden pedestal? I am very curious.
 

sderek

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I've seen several examples of restored stand alone tower clocks. They usually have small dials and hands fitted so that they can still be used as clocks.
 

FDelGreco

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If these clocks are in India, shipping cost to the international market may add 50% to the price. When I was in Mumbai, I could have anything made (e.g., a crate) or shipped around the country for very little. Once you get outside India, costs go up. I've seen several tower clocks on eBay in the Czech Republic that had shipping charges to the USA of over $400.

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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Best thing would be shippping by India Post would be fairly CHEAP. I shipped a Jno Walker Fusee Drop Dial Clock to USA which after packing weighed a bit over 10 KGs for USD 125. Above clock seem well over 100 years old and must be UK made!
 

prideofmatchingham

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One tower clock weighs 12 KGs and its hour/minute hand shaft(?) weighs 2 Kgs. Its height is 15 inches, width 12 inches and 6 inches deep- perfect for a table top tower clock, should one so desire. I had it checked, its complete save for weight and pendulum and one minute wheel.

By the way, can I put more pictures here if the item is 'live' now?
 

harold bain

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We aren't allowed discussions about any items currently up for auction, POM. You also would need the permission of the owner of the pictures to post them here, as they are copyrighted to the poster in an auction setting (and anywhere else on the internet).
 

prideofmatchingham

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Permission has been granted to me by the owner after which I am putting the pictures. However we will not discuss the value only mechanism, if permissible. If not permitted, we will discuss it afterwards.
Can I post the pictures here now that I have the permission?
 

harold bain

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If it's up for auction, we will have to await the end of the auction to discuss it further.
 

harold bain

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You don't show enough parts to make a complete clock. There is no pendulum, no base to mount the movement. I guess finding the maker would require another identical movement that has been identified.
 

prideofmatchingham

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Harold

The cylindrical thing is the weight (isnt it?). Base would be mounted on a wooden table. Only thing missing here are hands, dial and pendulum (in this picture pendulum is not shown). Which part you would much rather I focus more on?
 

FDelGreco

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I've looked over your photos and I can't really tell who may have made it or where it may have been made. Were there any known clockmakers in India? None of the books list any. When I was in Mumbai starting up a chemical plant, I found that if you needed something, it got made right on site -- usually crudely. This clock looks somewhat "clunky" so I wonder if it was made as a one-off unit. Some questions and comments:

1. The threads on the studs -- are they American or metric, or "custom?"
2. The teeth on the wheels look more triangular than what would normally be done by an American or European clockmaker -- or is it just the photos?
3. Some of the pinions look like they were pressed onto arbors that had splines cut on them to keep the pinions from slipping. I usually don't see that in tower clocks.

Because of its size, your clock may in fact be a public wall clock, that is, it sat on an inside shelf on an outside wall. The output shaft ran through the wall and powered a dial fastened to the exterior wall.

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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The dismantled parts are in the process of cleaning. My guy tell me that one of the wheels has something ML embossed. Does it ring any bells with my learned colleagues?
 

prideofmatchingham

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2013-01-03_22.32.41.jpg 2013-01-03_22.33.33.jpg 2013-01-03_22.33.43.jpg 2013-01-03_22.34.42.jpg 2013-01-03_22.35.23.jpg 2013-01-03_22.35.44.jpg

These are the photos of the parts of brass Trurret clock which has been dismantled and is under cleaning.
POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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For the benefit of my friends, I am putting up the pictures of the wheel where ML is embossed. It is relevant to note that ML is embossed on all the wheels. While searching the net, I came across the pages of National Archives of UK where it seems alphabetical codes were used for months and dates. Does it have any relevance for this?? Forum may like to see this.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...mond.htm#19043

Do these pictures help?

Wheel ML.jpg Wheel ML3.jpg

Any clue?
 

prideofmatchingham

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Forum, the brass clock is now working. Under time testing! Pl see the video.

[video=youtube;8xfV4vXvn0M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xfV4vXvn0M&feature=youtu.be[/video]

POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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Frank

There were no clockmakers then!
The threads on where the hands are set (is it what you meant by studs?) are BSW as per my clockmaker, whatever that means!
As per him, the teeeth on the wheels are German.
Also, he says the pinions are pressed and are not detachable unlike British clocks.

Does that help?
 

prideofmatchingham

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[video=youtube;nN1UGQdkZwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN1UGQdkZwM&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 

prideofmatchingham

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Forum, now this is the final effot and working Turret clock at home. Pl look at the video and pictures.
DSC02907 (768x1024).jpg DSC02908 (1024x768).jpg DSC02909 (1024x768).jpg DSC02910 (1024x768).jpg DSC02911 (1024x768).jpg DSC02912 (768x1024).jpg DSC02913 (1024x768).jpg DSC02914 (768x1024).jpg DSC02915 (1024x768).jpg DSC02916 (768x1024).jpg DSC02917 (768x1024).jpg DSC02918 (768x1024).jpg DSC02921 (768x1024).jpg DSC02922 (768x1024).jpg DSC02923 (768x1024).jpg DSC02924 (768x1024).jpg DSC02925 (1024x768).jpg

And the video is here

[video=youtube;Q_jnTbToBM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_jnTbToBM4&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
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prideofmatchingham

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Request the forum to see the FINAL EFFORT and EFFECT of Tower Clock Resurrection. If you think I deserve a pat on my back, a line would do, and if I deserve a prick on my back, a stick would do. The chap in the final shot of the video is the one who is my master clocksmith!

Here are the parts and accessories and dials, all of solid brass, itched to my liking. Please excuse multiple pictures. The only new thing here is dial and hands. All other are original!! Hands will be painted black later.

Dial (1024x768).jpg DSC03627 (1024x768).jpg DSC03628 (1024x768).jpg DSC03629 (1024x768).jpg DSC03630 (1024x768).jpg DSC03631 (1024x768).jpg DSC03632 (1024x768).jpg DSC03633 (1024x768).jpg DSC03634 (1024x768).jpg DSC03635 (1024x768).jpg DSC03636 (1024x768).jpg DSC03637 (1024x768).jpg DSC03638 (1024x768).jpg DSC03639 (1024x768).jpg DSC03640 (1024x768).jpg DSC03641 (1024x768).jpg DSC03642 (1024x768).jpg DSC03643 (1024x768).jpg DSC03644 (1024x768).jpg DSC03645 (1024x768).jpg DSC03646 (1024x768).jpg DSC03647 (1024x768).jpg DSC03648 (1024x768).jpg DSC03649 (1024x768).jpg DSC03650 (1024x768).jpg DSC03651 (1024x768).jpg DSC03652 (1024x768).jpg DSC03653 (1024x768).jpg DSC03654 (1024x768).jpg DSC03655 (1024x768).jpg DSC03656 (1024x768).jpg DSC03657 (1024x768).jpg DSC03658 (1024x768).jpg DSC03659 (1024x768).jpg DSC03660 (1024x768).jpg DSC03661 (1024x768).jpg DSC03662 (1024x768).jpg DSC03663 (1024x768).jpg

The guy in the final picture is the one who has done everything. I was only the man behind it!
And here is the video

[video=youtube_share;BlZneVyIbWc]http://youtu.be/BlZneVyIbWc[/video]

I want to put this project by my clocksmith under some competition, if there is one. Can someone guide me about it?

POM

PS: By the way, it is no more on sale as my friend has pulled it off after seeing the way it finally worked out!
 
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harold bain

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So, who's clock is it POM? Yours or your friend's? The minute hand is too long, but other than that, very good restoration job.
I don't know of any restoration competitions you could enter it in, but it certainly is a clock to be proud of:thumb::thumb:.
 

prideofmatchingham

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NOW, its mine and only mine!

Side view makes one feel thhat minute hand is longer than the radius. But thats not the case. See these photos here

IMG-20130319-00203.jpg IMG-20130319-00204.jpg IMG-20130319-00205.jpg IMG-20130319-00206.jpg IMG-20130319-00207.jpg IMG-20130319-00208.jpg IMG-20130319-00209.jpg IMG-20130319-00210.jpg IMG-20130319-00211.jpg IMG-20130319-00212.jpg IMG-20130319-00213.jpg IMG-20130319-00214.jpg IMG-20130319-00215.jpg IMG-20130319-00216.jpg IMG-20130319-00217.jpg IMG-20130319-00218.jpg

Minute hand is upto outer black circle. Does it need to be shorter?

As for competition, the many papers which came with NAWCC membership had one such pamphlet. Am trying to locate it. Any help would be welcome, B(r)ain.

POM
 

FDelGreco

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POM:

Yes, the minute hand is too long. There is a craft competition open to NAWCC members, with many categories (you'd have to decide which is best), but it is held at the national convention each year and you'd have to get the clock to the convention for judging (July of this year is the next convention in Dayton, Ohio).

Are you still looking for value? That is what this thread is supposed to be about.

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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I will have the mnute hand clipped a bit. But, its just upto the outer black circle on the dial.
No, Frank, no more looking for its value, I now know it- PRICELESS!

How do I get this thing to Ohio for judging? I have spent alll the money in its restoration? Cant they accept videos and photos because just sseeing the present condition how would they know about the past decrepit condition? Check yourmessage pl

POM
 

MichaelBriggs

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Re the meaning of "BSW": British Standard Whitworth. The first national standardized thread form, now little used. Unusual in having a 55 degree thread angle
 

prideofmatchingham

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HI Michael

Would you like to throw some more light on the clock, its origin, age and travel to India?
 

FDelGreco

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How do I get this thing to Ohio for judging? I have spent alll the money in its restoration? Cant they accept videos and photos because just sseeing the present condition how would they know about the past decrepit condition?
POM
POM:

The rules specifically state that photographs alone will not constitute an entry. However, I'm checking for an exception, considering how far away you are. BTW, the most important issue is who did the actual restoration. Was it you, or your clockmaker? In order for you to compete, you have to have done the work. If your clockmaker did all the work, and he is a member, then he could enter under his name, not yours. Let me know.

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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Frank

I have nothing save for the enthusiasm. And I certainly know next to nothing about watches and clocks, save for instinctively liking them.

Entire work has been done by my 'unsung' watchmaker' the likes of whom are, more often than not, treated as a 'glorified laborer', if at all. This would be my small attempt at trying to bring glory and prestige and most important of all, dignity to that breed. Hence when I said 'I', all the time I meant 'him'.

If you do get some rule exception whereby photos and videos can be admitted, I would pay for his membership.
POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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Frank, I know small talk is not permitted on this site, still I want to thank you profusely! :excited:
POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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Thwaites & Reed replied to my mail ( I had written to billion plus people in the world!) regarding identifying thee two turret clocks of mine. as per them " [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]We are unable to identify the clocks from the photographs you kindly sent. The manufacture does not look like Thwaites, butour house colour of dark green would indicate that we had either serviced or repaired the clock in the past. The general look of the clocks is that of mid to late 1800's and of English manufacture. We are sorry we cannot be more helpful."

SO thats where I have reached in my quest to find its manufacturer.

[/FONT]
 

prideofmatchingham

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Frank and tothers

There were some confusion regarding the origin of this tower clock due to its design and shape. I got this Fusee Skeleton clock Made in Britain. I find some unmistakable similarity in the design and symmetry. What do you say?

Fusee Skeleton Clock.jpg TC1.JPG

Any takers for my hypothesis?

POM
 

prideofmatchingham

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Frank, we were uncertain about the origin of the clock. Does this similarity with a Made in Britain Fusee Skeleton clock hold any clue?

Turret CLock.JPG Fusee Skeleton Clock.jpg

POM
 

FDelGreco

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I have seen a number of skeleton clocks from several countries with that same "general" design. I wouldn't draw any conclusions from it. Your clockmaker may have seen a picture somewhere or was in a clockshop way back when and got the idea to use the same general design.

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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Yes, nothing conclusive asto the maker! Just that its very old!
Even the other one is fully done now!
 

harold bain

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I suppose many older tower clocks were made by the local clock maker/repairman as a public service to their community, as well as a good way to show their competence, making their identity difficult to impossible, without knowing where they were originally installed.
 

FDelGreco

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Yes, nothing conclusive asto the maker! Just that its very old!
Even the other one is fully done now!
I'm not sure it's that old. If it was made in the first quarter of the 20th century or earlier, it probably would have had square head nuts and bolts, instead of the hex head ones. Also, the clock looks very "clunky" -- not very graceful. It could have been the clockmaker's first clock (or only clock).

Frank
 

prideofmatchingham

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Poor clockmaker must be turning in his grave, Frank!!

One I find graceful and copied from the looks of skeleton clocks whereas other is typical A shaped.
 

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