Antique Small Citizen Wire Lug Trench Style Watch Help ??

Discussion in 'Wrist Watches' started by Jared Suydam, Jan 24, 2020.

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  1. Jared Suydam

    Jared Suydam Registered User
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    Come across this small Citizen wire lug trench case style watch. I am having difficulty identifying or finding a similar watch made by Citizen, The Movement is simply marked "Citizen" I see no other marks hidden below the balance wheel ect. Maybe under Dial? Does anyone have any information on this watch? Case measurements are as follows: mm wide (EXCLUDING CROWN), mm top of lug to bottom lug, lugs measure mm wide.
    ANY HELP IS ALWAYS APPRECIATED! Thanks in Advance
    Jared

    096_DSC00511.jpg 095_DSC00510.jpg 090_DSC00505.jpg 091_DSC00506.jpg 092_DSC00507.jpg 093_DSC00508.jpg 094_DSC00509.jpg
     
  2. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    Very interesting, and early piece.
    I never realized CITIZEN were making movements at that time ; well they did not make it, as its a SWISS movement and CITIZEN is Japanese.
    looks a bit like an AEGLER movement, but thats without any real research
     
  3. Jared Suydam

    Jared Suydam Registered User
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    Hey Adam, I appreciate your response. I'm going to keep doing some homework and here in a bit I will remove dial and upload a photo. I have not seen any Citizen watches from this era, ( If my assumption that it was made anywhere between 1910-1930?). I also have not looked into the case markings either, which read "STAR"(in a rectangle) above "Everbright Back". I recently had am Seikosha Star watch, Although I know they have nothing in common as far as movement, ect, This watch upon first looking at it kind of reminded me of it, with the size ect. Thanks again Adam, I will let you know if I can dig up any other Info!
     
  4. Adam Harris

    Adam Harris Registered User
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    Watch to me is probably about 1915 to 1920
    "STAR" was case manufacturer "Everbright" a marketing name, to imply silver

    Its an early piece, I am sure swiss and probably prior to making their own movements
     
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  5. viclip

    viclip Registered User
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  6. Jared Suydam

    Jared Suydam Registered User
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    Awesome info, and much appreciated! Thanks all!
     
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  7. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    Interesting watch! I would presume the company ID will be under the dial. The style of dial makes me think 1920s or later. It’s going to be a tough one to find the right band for. I would be delighted if it turns out to be an early watch from “the” Citizen watch co. as I haven’t encountered one before. -Cort
     
  8. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    #8 Jeff Hess, Jan 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, a little snooping around indicates the following (this is not meant to be scholarly, just some "internet facts" that can always be suspect...though they come from reputable sources). Viclip's information seems to be correct. Schmid, as a young Swiss man, upset his home country greatly by moving to Japan and taking along "kits" to assemble watches there under, eventually the Citizen name. Cheaply and efficiently to avoid high duties. In 1918 he was reported employing 200 people in Japan! This was indeed the beginning of the "Citizen brand" we know today. Although it was not, apparently, if the "net is correct" fully a Japanese company, officially until 1930) If the subject watch is not altered it could very well be one of the earliest Citizens uncovered in recent times. The case maker "likely" has nothing to do with the usa casemaker "Star" in Luddington. There was a "Star watch Trading" company that was founded (reportedly) in 1926 (also owned by Schmid) and bought by Citizen in 1932. In 1930 Shokosha led by Kamekichi Yamazaki (who was a dealer in "watch metals", a goldsmith and who himself assembled and manufactured watches and even came to the USA to find machinery he brought back to Japan) got some funding from some watch geeks/investors named Yosaburo Nakajima and Ryoichi Suzuki and merged with Schmids factory to create what we now know at Citizen. Schimd, the Swiss man who moved to Japan at 23 years old circa 1900) continued to own stock in Citizen until the 1940's. Age of the watch? I would love for some Citizen experts to chime in. While it "looks" like 1918 era, around the time Schmid started his deal it is likely later. But some sources suggest the term "citizen" was not coined until 1924, according to Toralf Czartowlski, when "At the suggestion of the mayor of Tokyo Shimpei Goto, who associated it with the hope that the watches of this manufacturer will not only be worn by a few rich people in the near future, but also by ordinary people the brand name Citizen" was born. Either way wether 1916 or 1930 a VERY cool watch and likely "quasi-important" collector-wise. (again all of the above simply gleaned from some rudimentary "web sources" and not meant to be counted on since, with the web, "ya never know". Put it all together and it "seems" that Cort was "right on target" as to dating.... late 1920's. Jeffrey P Hess
     
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  9. 4thdimension

    4thdimension Registered User

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    Inspirational sleuthing Mr. Hess! -Cort
     
  10. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    Thanks, I love this stuff.
     
  11. Tomxhar

    Tomxhar Registered User

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