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Antique Skeleton Clock

captsight

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Jun 27, 2011
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Hello there - I have an Antique Skeleton Clock, that I know very little about. It was grandmother's, and unfortunately that is all I know.

There is a tag that says "Reider & CO" and lists an address in London.

In searching the internet, I cannot seem to find any info on this company, nor do I find any pictures that seem to match up with the clock..

Any help would be appreciated!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64541852@N07/5877764469/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64541852@N07/5878324750/in/photostream
 

JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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John Reider and his brother Lorenz were listed, together with various employees, in the 1851 and 1861 London censuses. They are described as Clockmakers, working at 152 Goswell Street, London. The brothers were born in Germany.

The family does not appear in the 1871 census.

Goswell Street is now part of Goswell Road.

This area was a centre of the clockmaking industry up until the 1970s/80s, now sadly the industry has almost entirely disappeared.

Hope this may help.
JTD
 

shutterbug

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Great clock! Neat old fusee power supply should make it pretty accurate. Is it running? Know any family history for it? Surely worth keeping, enjoying and passing down to your kids eventually!
 

laprade

Registered User
One thing for certain: it is a genuine one. A lot of fusee wall clocks were made into skeletons, recently and in the 19th and 20th cs. Yours has 5 crossings out on the escape wheel, which the conversions don't have (4)
 

shutterbug

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Square based dome? That's unusual in itself! :)
 

Tinker Dwight

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Oct 11, 2010
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The suspension spring is carried from an extension of the frame so the escape arbor is not in line with the flex point of the spring.
Hi
That makes one wonder if the mechanics had started as a
wall clock and someone made open plates for it. The pendulum
would have been too long so they raised the mount for the
suspension, rather than making a larger escapement wheel,
to use a shorter pendulum.
At least the design of the mechanics was most likely designed
for another clock that they were making.
Tinker Dwight
 

captsight

New User
Jun 27, 2011
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Thank you all for the great feedback. The clock runs pretty well (you just have to keep it wound up). I was thinking I should get it cleaned or serviced in some way, but I dont know enough about it to know if that is a good idea or not, or even where I could take it. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!
 

Bruce Barnes

Registered User
Mar 20, 2004
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First off,a beautiful clock and MOST assuredly worthy of a complete "check up" and service.......secondly if you let the Message Board know where you are further advice and direction can be given.
Bruce
 

Tinker Dwight

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Oct 11, 2010
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Tinker, because the escape wheel has the "five crossings out", the chances that it is a conversion, are small.
Hi
I agree that it most likely wasn't a conversion but I suspect
the movement train was a standard design for a larger clock.
The maker would know that it is desired to keep things lined
up.
It may have been a special order that he didn't want to
spend too much time on or it may have been made as a
window display item to attract customers.
It is still a really nice clock. I'd love to have one like it.
The dome is worth its weight in gold. I'd handle it with
care. It isn't too easy to find a square one now days.
Tinker Dwight
 

Bruce Barnes

Registered User
Mar 20, 2004
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CAPTSIGHT,check the NAWCC Chapter Listings and find one close to you,attend a meeting as a guest and get current information for your locale regarding repair etc.
Have a great 4th,
Bruce
 

eskmill

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After studying the single photo of Capsight's outstandingly unique skeleton clock, I too, like Tinker Dwight, see some irregularity in the train layout. The irregular placement of the suspension does impose sliding frictional losses in the crutch-pendulum motion which is contrary to efficient design.

Without additional photos revealing more about the wheel-pinion train layout, the single view reveals to my eye, an additional wheel-pinion set between the intermediate or second wheel and the escape wheel pinion; it's not visible, but I know it's there. This would suggest a longer than 8-day running movement and these usually involve techniques to minimize friction losses. The placement of the pendulum suspension and resultant losses in the crutch-pendulum slot is contrary to long-running clock design.

Laprade points out the five spoke wheel crossings as a clue toward originality, yet the canon pinion and minute wheels are of the plain sort.

I have no knowledge of skeleton clock making but understand traditional clock movement design. That said, there's always something to see and appreciate in a skeleton clock.
 
Last edited:

Ray Fanchamps

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We have had this discussion before regarding the origins of these clocks.
There is no one "test" that determines origin. In many cases it's the accumulated evidence that only points to a possibility.
How definitive is that.................?

Some observations on this clock. Nice rafter "straight line plates" , a thin squared tall look lends itself well to the use of a square dome.
Back in the 1870's and for some time after these were "a hot item". At that time they were made by legitimate clock companies and also "assembled" by retailers and small clock houses.
This particular clock has some features that indicate standard parts were used to put together a nice looking clock without making specific parts other than the frame. Even then frames could be purchased if needed. By using readily available parts this lowered manufacturing costs but meant having to follow constrictions based on the parts available.
Check out the minute wheel, no cock. Not a very common practice at that time for English construction. It is mounted to a post because A, it's simple and B the plate geometry and design does not
lend itself to the addition of a conventional cock. It would look ugly even assuming there were the meat on the plates to add such.
Second. The dial is simply a conventional parts Chapter ring with internal scollops. Nothing on the outer edge as there would be no material to work with. In other words they did not make a dial to suit the clock form but again used "standard" parts and "dressed them up".
Third as others have already observed the mount for the pendulum (not easily seen) is a simple post, not a bridge and does not allow for removal of the verge as it is now fixed between the plates. Also the pendulum drop is not correct in proportion to the plates. The mount had to be raised to achieve the drop. Not too hard to design plates for a known drop but if you are "using what's available" you do what you have to do. Again the design does not lend itself to the use of a bridge but even on these types of plates some makers at least attempted some version of a bridge when manufacturing a clock "from scratch".

Five spokes........... More sought after than four but not a determiner of origin on its own.

The label in the base..............don't be fooled but such.
Let's say you have a movement made by these guys. You take the wheels and make your own frame, a little sawing, a little drilling and you have a clock.
So, how difficult would it be using those same skills to saw out the makers name off the plate and insert it into the base ? It's not, and such "deception" is done.

So where are we ? This isn't likely a clock made by someone set up to "manufacture skeleton clocks". This is a clock made from conventional readily available parts and worked into the form of a Skeleton clock. Maybe by a parts house, small workshop or other and it could have been made well over 100 years ago. Condliff made some very much sought after clocks this way so it's not necessarily a negative feature, simply a practice of the time.

If this is truly a clock by this company it is very likely it's not the only one they made. It is equally likely they followed the same practice of seating their tag in the base. There should be others out there and finding one would very much seal the deal suggesting this is a small clock house fabrication from standard parts. Without such confirmation it's speculation as to the origin and that is not unusual for these clocks. Sometimes it's part of the mystery................

It's a nice clock to enjoy, has good lines and a nice look to it. :thumb:

Addition......
Just as a quick addition to bring together Les's and Laprade's observation re wheel crossings.
Even established manufacturers used solid wheels occasionally on the cannon pinion and minute wheel.
One real "deal killer" for me is when I see a solid hour wheel. These do appear from time to time but score high on my "fake" meter. This is a very common sign of being a dial clock conversion. If you think about it the very essence of "Skeleton clock" is "opened up" and there staring you in the face is a big solid hour wheel. Uuuuuuugleee..............
Wheel crossing is definitely something that adds appeal to these clocks and factors into price and appreciation. The "crossing count" or number is not "generally" something that should factor into considerations of "originality".

JMO
 
Last edited:

eskmill

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Ray Fanchamp's experienced eye provides a good analysis of the Skeleton clock at issue and I, for one, am grateful for his comments.

Although the Message Board has many threads about the originality of skeleton clocks, this particular thread serves as an excellent review of the obscure details that separate an attractive but common skeleton clock from the more unusual, "scratch" made clocks of this type which were designed and fabricated to be nothing less than perfect in concept, appearance, construction and function.

Thanks to all who contributed to this educational thread.
 

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