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Antique Chinese Duplex painted dial Automaton Pocket Watch HELP!! LOOK!

Logan2468

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
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image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg Hello all! I recently purchased this antique Chinese duplex automaton pocket watch. I have never seen a Chinese duplex with two automations on it. Better yet I have never seen a Chinese automaton pocket watch with any automations at all!
They both work perfectly. One is a windmill automation and the other is a pendulum automation.

The hands are positioned in an almost Hebdomas style. Unfortunately the center seconds hand is missing but I may have one coming to me. The watch was recently serviced and is in perfect running order.

I've been having so much conflicting information on who the maker was and have heard from several people that the maker is Bovet Fleurier and several said it's Juvet. Is there anyone here that can read the chinese markings on the movement or maybe know someone who can? Also the markings on the key? Any ideas? The other side of the key says Alex Ross & Co. Maybe that's what the chinese markings say on the other side of the key? I have also been told that it may of been made for someone important but I have no idea how truthful that is. The inside of the case has a Sterling lion hallmark and the Birmingham hallmark. There are others but I can't make them out as they are wore down. I know this watch was made by the "english?" For the Chinese market.

The design on the back I have been told it may be an addition to the case because it appears that it was soldered on. It has Dragon motifs and is very ornate. The engraving is very well done. The inner ring appears that it may be either gold or platinum while the outside is a bit duller like the case and maybe silver. Does anyone here think that it indeed IS an add on or could it possibly be original and the person tried to reapply it because it was coming off? I know Back in the 1700's that some verge fusee watches have applied designs that can come off over the years, so is it possible that the person that previously owned it noticed that it was coming off and tried to reapply it doing a sloppy job or just wanted to add some design to his watch? If it is a soldered add on, obviously it would diminish the value of the watch tremendously. Would there be anyone here or someone around that could possibly remove the piece on the back and buff out the imperfections on the case to make it look totally original? If it IS original, would there be a way to remove it, clean and buff all the solder off and professionally reapply it with no signs of being soldered on? Or if this piece is an add on, would it increase the value for it to be on there but have someone remove it first and remove the solder and reapply the design professionally just to have some pretty engraving? Or would it be best to just remove it and leave it off? I'm sure most people would want it as original as it was made.

I know I have tons of questions but I would like to get this thing in the best possible condition and have it as appealing as possible if I was to sell it "which I may keep it as I've never seen anything like it." image.jpg f anyone could point me in the correct position on this I would be absolutely thrilled. Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope you can give me some info!
 

gmorse

NAWCC Member
Jan 7, 2011
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Hi Logan,

If you bought this as a duplex, I'm afraid that what I see is the tail of a lever and a club-tooth escape wheel, neither of which are present in a duplex, Chinese or otherwise! It does otherwise show the characteristic ornamentation of a Fleurier product.

Although the hallmarks are very rubbed in your picture, I also have doubts about the lion passant.

Regards,

Graham
 

Logan2468

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
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I was curious as to whether it was duplex or lever. Also what do you mean doubts of the lion?
Regards,
Logan
 

Les harland

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Apr 10, 2008
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I do not want to discourage you but there is a very similar Chinese antique pocket watch for sale on Ebay at the moment
The sale should finish around 21-00 hrs GMT 18th January
 
Last edited:

Omexa

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Feb 28, 2010
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Hi Graham, it is a "Chinese Lion" I used to see them in Melbourne when I lived there. There is a big Chinese Population there left over from Gold Rush Days c1854. I have my doubts about the Lion, maybe I am wrong and it is a Swiss Lion? I like the Pocket Watch. Regards Ray
 

MartyR

Registered User
Dec 16, 2008
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Logan, the lion passant looks like a faked hallmark, a poor copy of the lion passant. I agree with him. It has that very "chubby" look rather than the correct "lean and hungry" look of the true English lion :) That would mean that the case is not Sterling silver, although that doesn't mean that it isn't some other grade of silver.

In response to your comments in your initial post, I would be amazed if the case contains any solid gold, and even more amazed if it contains any platinum.
 

Logan2468

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
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I understand. There is another mark looking like the birmingham mark but I'm sure it's fake as well LOL!
 

MartyR

Registered User
Dec 16, 2008
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Enrico, those marks are nothing but faked copies of English hallmarks - they include the Sterling lion, both versions of the London leopard, a date letter and a maker's monogram. They are simply marks that have been observed by someone on a particular watch, not marks entered in some official registry. The description in the right-hand column, and at the head of the page, suggests as much.

There is no doubt at all in my mind that those marks were intended to deceive.
 

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