Ansonia Strike Train not leaving the station

[clockgirl80!]

I am a newbie to clock repair. Having a great time working on my first clock, but have run into something i can figure out. This is an old Ansonia mantle clock i have had for years. Some time back it had stopped running and striking, so I figured I would give it a go at attempting to clean myself. I went through the entire exercise of taking the clock apart, cleaning, oiling and putting back together thanks to reading many articles and watching a million videos. The clock is now ticking away great but for the life of me I can't get the strike train going. I have taken apart about six times with same results. One thing to note, the first time I put it back together the train ran. Unfortunately, i had put in the governor piece upside down so the train ran crazy till the spring was completely unwound. I am afraid maybe that bent or broke something?
Here is where i am at now... clock ticks away, train won't move even if i lift up the locking levers by hand... nothing happens. I included pictures to try to share the different wheels.. I did notice that the cam wheel( I think it is called) has one little prong above the little gear box. This was bent in, so i carefully tried to straighten it out. Are there supposed to be more of these?

I am at my whits end, as i am starting to dream about this clock. Any throughts as to why the train won't start going, even when i manually lift the locking levers would be great. When i first put it back together i could at least get it to do that.

Thanks so much.

 

[ChimeTime]

Welcome ! Can't speak to your specific movement, but here are some hints and common issues I've created for myself...

• I like to troubleshoot by following the energy up through the strike train. This is done by performing a push-pull on the wheels, starting at S2. Backing the wheel up slightly should result in it snapping back. Obviously the torque decreases with each successive wheel/pinion pair.

• In the "at rest" position, the strike hammer cannot be resting against the actuating cam. The entire strike train will actually need a "head start" to build momentum before the hammer is engaged.

• Make sure the fly has not walked over and engaged the teeth of another wheel.

 

[RickNB]

In the 3rd pic, it looks like one trundle on the lantern pinion is sticking out. That could cause a jam up of the mating wheel..

 

[lpbp]

In the 3rd pic, it looks like one trundle on the lantern pinion is sticking out. That could cause a jam up of the mating wheel..

That trundle is correct, it's what advances the count wheel.

 

[Vernon]

I'm not sure what you bent but usually it is best not to do any bending unless you're sure. Also, some of the trundles look worn. There could be other wear that needs addressed.
Vernon

 

[wow]

A video of it as you try to get it going may help us.

 

[R. Croswell]

You can check for power from the bottom up as suggested, or top down. Top down you start with the fly and look for a wheel that is "slack" - can rock both ways because it has no power. Try pulling the strike hammer back away from the gong and see if the strike train will run. Is it possible that you have one of the control levers on the wrong side of an adjacent arbor? There are usually two control levers, one lifts the other as it gets ready to strike. On some clocks it is possible to get the lifting part on the wrong side of the lever that needs to be lifted.

If you take it apart again, install only strike side wheels and count wheel, with NO control levers. Wind the spring just a few clicks and see if the wheels start to turn and coast slowly to a stop. You are confirming that the wheels can actually turn, that there are no bent trundles, or broken teeth that make it impossible to run. If all checks OK, then you know the problem is with the control levers and/or the timing that prevents the strike from trying to start whit the hammer preloaded.

RC

 

[clockgirl80!]

You can check for power from the bottom up as suggested, or top down. Top down you start with the fly and look for a wheel that is "slack" - can rock both ways because it has no power. Try pulling the strike hammer back away from the gong and see if the strike train will run. Is it possible that you have one of the control levers on the wrong side of an adjacent arbor? There are usually two control levers, one lifts the other as it gets ready to strike. On some clocks it is possible to get the lifting part on the wrong side of the lever that needs to be lifted.

If you take it apart again, install only strike side wheels and count wheel, with NO control levers. Wind the spring just a few clicks and see if the wheels start to turn and coast slowly to a stop. You are confirming that the wheels can actually turn, that there are no bent trundles, or broken teeth that make it impossible to run. If all checks OK, then you know the problem is with the control levers and/or the timing that prevents the strike from trying to start whit the hammer preloaded.

RC

All good stuff. Thank you. I have a question... when i was trying to figure this out previously, I lifted the control levers manually and none of the wheels started to turn. Without the control levers locking things, shouldn't the wheels have started to turn?

 

[wow]

All good stuff. Thank you. I have a question... when i was trying to figure this out previously, I lifted the control levers manually and none of the wheels started to turn. Without the control levers locking things, shouldn't the wheels have started to turn?

Not necessarily. If the minute hand is in the position where it is lifting the warn lever, the lever will stop the wheels. The wheels can turn only during warn or if the levers are at their lowest point.

 

[shutterbug]

You didn't mention bushings, just cleaning. The strike train will always be the first to go because it runs more under stress. Worn plates need bushings to compensate for wear. I'm guessing that's where the problem is.

 

[Willie X]

In your first photo, the fly retaining wire is not in it's groove and there appears to be an empty hole near the fly pinion. This hole once held an "L" shaped brass wire that served as a warning stop on some of these 'big wheel' clocks. I don't have a photo but maybe someone does.

How this would cause a 'no run' condition, I do not know. I would follow the advise of others and remove everything except the strike side wheels/arbors and see how that goes. Problems should become obvious? Then add the hammer assembly and other parts one at a time ...

Willie X

 

[clockgirl80!]

In your first photo, the fly retaining wire is not in it's groove and there appears to be an empty hole near the fly pinion. This hole once held an "L" shaped brass wire that served as a warning stop on some of these 'big wheel' clocks. I don't have a photo but maybe someone does.

How this would cause a 'no run' condition, I do not know. I would follow the advise of others and remove everything except the strike side wheels/arbors and see how that goes. Problems should become obvious? Then add the hammer assembly and other parts one at a time ...

Willie X

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I went ahead and removed everything except the strike train wheels. I could actually get movement on all wheels when

In your first photo, the fly retaining wire is not in it's groove and there appears to be an empty hole near the fly pinion. This hole once held an "L" shaped brass wire that served as a warning stop on some of these 'big wheel' clocks. I don't have a photo but maybe someone does.

How this would cause a 'no run' condition, I do not know. I would follow the advise of others and remove everything except the strike side wheels/arbors and see how that goes. Problems should become obvious? Then add the hammer assembly and other parts one at a time ...

Willie X

I did as suggested and put the only the strike side of the clock back together(no levers) and was able to get the wheels to all interact, so i am thinking that confirms that there is nothing bent or broken. So know as suggested i want to put the levers back in. I am attaching pictures of what i have. This clock is a little different than some Ansonia i have seen in videos online. I enclosed a couple pictures... one is of the strike hammer and the wheel(with the knobs) that it interacts with. My question on that one is there anything special i need to know about aligning where the strike hammer lines up to, when i first start the clock? The other picture is of the two levers i have. I am pretty sure that i have them in correctly... The counting lever would not reach the wheel it interacts with if I didn't. I know I have to align them so that the lever on each sits in the appropriate slots. Anything i should be looking out for when i put them back in?

 

[clockgirl80!]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I went ahead and removed everything except the strike train wheels. I could actually get movement on all wheels when

I did as suggested and put the only the strike side of the clock back together(no levers) and was able to get the wheels to all interact, so i am thinking that confirms that there is nothing bent or broken. So know as suggested i want to put the levers back in. I am attaching pictures of what i have. This clock is a little different than some Ansonia i have seen in videos online. I enclosed a couple pictures... one is of the strike hammer and the wheel(with the knobs) that it interacts with. My question on that one is there anything special i need to know about aligning where the strike hammer lines up to, when i first start the clock? The other picture is of the two levers i have. I am pretty sure that i have them in correctly... The counting lever would not reach the wheel it interacts with if I didn't. I know I have to align them so that the lever on each sits in the appropriate slots. Anything i should be looking out for when i put them back in?

View attachment 714485 View attachment 714486

Also, thanks for the info on the fly.... i adjusted so wire is back in the grove. The L shaped piece is actually there. I think it is just a bad pic, and from that angle it looks like an empty hole.

 

[R. Croswell]

I believe this is the same movement. Sorry, it is before I cleaned it up but perhaps it will help show where things go. Be sure to enlarge the photos.

As for the setup, with the lever in the notch of the maintenance cam, you want the hammer lever to have just dropped off of one of the pegs in the second wheel. It often takes more than one try to get it right. You might first try installing just the center arbor, the 3rd. wheel (with the cam), the 4th. wheel, and the fly. Then make sure the count lever (and the other lever) lift when you turn the minute hand ahead. Just before the count lever drops, make sure the lever that was in the notch in the cam is lifted out of the notch. At that point you should be able to manually turn the wheels ahead just a bit (the warning run). Then turn the minute hand ahead a bit more until the count lever drops and you should be able to turn the wheels ahead by hand until the lever again drops into the notch in the cam. With most of the parts out of the way, try to understand how it is supposed to work, and you should see what's wrong.

RC

 

[clockgirl80!]

I believe this is the same movement. Sorry, it is before I cleaned it up but perhaps it will help show where things go. Be sure to enlarge the photos.

As for the setup, with the lever in the notch of the maintenance cam, you want the hammer lever to have just dropped off of one of the pegs in the second wheel. It often takes more than one try to get it right. You might first try installing just the center arbor, the 3rd. wheel (with the cam), the 4th. wheel, and the fly. Then make sure the count lever (and the other lever) lift when you turn the minute hand ahead. Just before the count lever drops, make sure the lever that was in the notch in the cam is lifted out of the notch. At that point you should be able to manually turn the wheels ahead just a bit (the warning run). Then turn the minute hand ahead a bit more until the count lever drops and you should be able to turn the wheels ahead by hand until the lever again drops into the notch in the cam. With most of the parts out of the way, try to understand how it is supposed to work, and you should see what's wrong.

RC

View attachment 714487 View attachment 714492

Wow, this is exactly my clock. I couldn't find one online anywhere. Thanks so much.

 

[R. Croswell]

Wow, this is exactly my clock. I couldn't find one online anywhere. Thanks so much.

Glad to help.

 

[clockgirl80!]

Well here is where I am at. I put the movement back together. I made sure I alighned the control levers in notches and the strike hammer as suggested. I turn the main arbor and there is a small thick wire attached that comes around and attempts to raise the control levers... but it doesn't seem to be able to accomplish that so the levers never lift out of the notches properly. I enclosed a picture of the main arbor. Is it supposed to be angled like that? also, the control lever that rests against the main arbor waiting to get pushed up(it is the big loop lever).. is that opening supposed to be a certain width? Once again thanks for any helpful tips.

 

[Vernon]

That wire on the center arbor should be el-shaped. The big loop lever ( j-hook) would adjust open or close to get the strike to happen on the hour. There may be another on the arbor for the passive half hour strike?

Vernon

 

[shutterbug]

Yeah, that has definitely been fooled with. Should be close to 90°. Get it back where it belongs, and then if it's not rising high enough to unlock the strike, adjust the lift wire (on the J hook arbor, but the other one, not the J). Then if it's not striking at the correct minute, open the J to make the strike sooner or close it to make it later. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but that's how it works

 

[clockgirl80!]

Yeah, that has definitely been fooled with. Should be close to 90°. Get it back where it belongs, and then if it's not rising high enough to unlock the strike, adjust the lift wire (on the J hook arbor, but the other one, not the J). Then if it's not striking at the correct minute, open the J to make the strike sooner or close it to make it later. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but that's how it works

Thanks so much. I adjusted the wire. I kept the bend where it was. Does this seem right. I am nervous to play around bending things too much for fear of them breaking, but i thought this looked good.

 

[Willie X]

Yes, that's good. Make sure it's still tight in the arbor.

It's never a reason to mess with that lifting wire. So, you know for sure that other stuff will be messed with too ...

It's just a methodical thing to get it back in order. Not to bad, if you take it one little step at a time.

You have a good start, Willie X

 

[clockgirl80!]

Yes, that's good. Make sure it's still tight in the arbor.

It's never a reason to mess with that lifting wire. So, you know for sure that other stuff will be messed with too ...

It's just a methodical thing to get it back in order. Not to bad, if you take it one little step at a time.

You have a good start, Willie X

Before i put this back together one more question - in this particular clock here is what the control arms look like and where they sit. (see pic). If the J Hook does not move up far enough to release things, it does seem like doing any adjustment on the other arm on that arbor would do anything. Am i missing something? f

 

[R. Croswell]

See picture below. If you bend the lever indicated without bending any of the other levers to reduce the space between the two arrows, it will lift higher. When the "J" hook drops the el wire on the center shaft and the strike is done you want a little space between the arrows - make sure you get a good release and that should be enough.

RC

 

[Willie X]

Well, you could start with a complete assembly of the strike side only, plus the minute hand shaft assembly (with minute hand pined in place) minus the strike main wheel and spring.

When you slowly rotate the minute hand, your "J" hook will need to lift that lower lever just high enough to release the slotted stop disk on the 3rd wheel arbor. I'm guessing that it won't do this but the reason should become obvious. Adjust as necessary. You can apply power when needed using finger pressure on the 2nd wheel.

As soon as the 3rd wheel is released the straight lever at the top should catch the little "L" shaped wire on the fly arbor. Then, a little more hand rotation should allow the "J" lever to drop and the train should run.

There will be more adjustments but this should get you to a point where the strike will release and run.

Timing will be your next step ...

Willie X