Ansonia Knight Open Escapement Runs Way Too Fast

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by Jayke, Aug 8, 2017.

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  1. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Hello. I purchased an Ansonia clock (Knight model) with an open escapement from a reputable seller on ebay (this is the second clock I've bought from this seller). It runs beautifully and I believe was cleaned and oiled prior to selling.

    It has both the regulator arbor at the 12 o'clock position and an adjustable pendulum bob. I've turned the regulator arbor to the slow position repeatedly. I've turned the arbor while looking through the back of the case and it seems to be working. I've tried turning the arbor in both directions. I turned it 100 times toward "S" in the course of a week (no exaggeration; I counted 25 full turns each time over four days and tracked the results).

    I've got the pendulum bob down as far as it can go. The design on the pendulum bob matches the ornate patterns on the clock case so I presume it is the correct pendulum assembly for the clock.

    It has driven me bats that I can't slow my clock down. As far as I can tell from the sound it is in correct beat. I'm entirely at a loss.
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I believe this one will also do better in Clock Repair.
     
  3. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    #3 Fitzclan, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    Can we see photos of the clock with pendulum and suspension rod?
    You should not be able to turn the adjuster 100 times in either direction, so it may not be working as well as you think.
    Also, if this is a tall standing figural clock like it seems to be, there should be an extension that goes between the suspension spring and the pendulum. If you are missing this extension the clock will run very fast
     
  4. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    If that extension is indeed missing, check the bottom of the case and the packaging it came in. If you don't find it you can easily make a new one from 16 gage wire available at any hardware or home improvement store for a couple of bucks. You may have to fiddle with length until you get it right, but set both adjustments to their centers first.
     
  5. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    I'm sorry. I only registered yesterday. Should I delete this post and then repost it in clock repair?
     
  6. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    I am presently at work but I will try to take photos when I get home or tomorrow. I've got to deliver a wheelchair to a lady after work so it might be tomorrow.

    I think I may know what you are talking about when you reference the extension. It is effectively a "J-hook" shape from which the pendulum rod which is an upside down "V" acting as a torsion clamp on which the pendulum bob is retained. Ahhh heck I'll just post the pic. After all a picture is worth a thousand words.

    I'm very grateful to you for taking the time to respond.
     
  7. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Mr. Thornberry I see two of my posts have been migrated to clock repair. If you are the responsible party I thank you. If not please send my thanks along to he or she that is.
     
  8. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    Here is what I am talking about.
    as you can see, the pendulum length is about 10.5 " 312863.jpg 312864.jpg 312865.jpg 312866.jpg 312867.jpg
     
  9. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    It's all wrong, fitzclan. That suspension should run all the way down to the bob, and the bob should not look like that one. All of the adjustments for speed should take place at the fast/slow adjuster on the dial. You need this and this to make it right. Start long, and work your way shorter. Keep the adjuster in the center position until you are close to the right time keeping. Someone used an Ansonia bob from a different kind of clock. I tried to find some pictures of my old figural clocks, but couldn't find any. But I'm pretty sure I'm right. At any rate, you'll need to increase the length of the suspension.

    Edit: on second thought, maybe the bob is correct. You'll just need to make a new suspension rod longer.
     
  10. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    #10 Tinker Dwight, Aug 8, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    Can you be more exact in how fast the clock is?
    It might be a length adjustment but there are other
    possible issues.
    Looking at the picture, the adjuster is at about mid travel.
    Measure how fast it is over some length of time.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  11. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    Im sure this would work by simply using a longer suspension rod Shut, but you wouldn't be able to hang the bob once installed as there is no access to get to the bottom of the case. I am assuming that this is why it is made this way.
    Just guessing though. Don't have anything to compare it to.
    I'd like to see what the op has.
     
  12. Fitzclan

    Fitzclan Registered User

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    Hi Tinker,
    The op hasn't posted any pics of his clock yet. I was just showing him how mine is set up. He didn't say how fast it is but that would be good to know.
     
  13. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    Well, that explains why it is in the middle of travel.
    It would be helpful if the OP would give us more info to go on.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  14. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    Ooops! Sorry, fitz! I should read who is posting! :glasses:I assumed that you were the OP, and we all know what assuming does! :)
     
  15. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Gentlemen I want to apologize for my prolonged absence! Sadly I have fibromyalgia and my ability to function is thereby on a day-to-day basis. Some days I can barely get through work! On the next post to this thread I will upload some photos and then try to go back and answer any questions. 313612.jpg 313613.jpg 313614.jpg 313615.jpg
     
  16. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Or I will completely screw up and add photos where ever as I did above!

    Photo 1: The clock its self
    Photo 2: The movement
    Photo 3: The pendulum as far down as it is "meant" to go reverse
    Photo 4: The pendulum as far down as it is "meant" to go obverse
     
  17. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    This is the pendulum bob adjusted down as far as it possibly can go though I doubt the bob was ever "meant" to ride this low - obverse
    As an aside that is teflon tape at the very end of the threaded portion because the nut does not seem to hold well there at the very end (acts as though it is stripped a bit)
    313616.jpg
    This is the bob adjusted as far down... reverse
    313617.jpg
     
  18. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Fitzclan it does indeed make good common sense that the adjuster shouldn't be able to turn 100 times in either direction. I should have exercised the aforementioned common sense before describing the adjuster as working. I cannot see the mechanism well due to the design of the case.

    Hopefully my photo shows the "j-hook" type extension I believe you are referring to.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Based on your photos I think I can safely say my clock also has the extension to which you are referring, but that was a really great thought!
     
  19. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Looking at my photos of the my pendulum bob would you agree with me that it looks as though it was made for my clock?

    I am not sure I can go too much longer because there is a board inside the base of the clock.

    The business I purchased the clock from is a clock specialist. That's not to say they didn't just throw something at it to get it up for auction, but...

    I don't know if you saw another post of mine but the quote at the bottom of your post is a scream and I've used it a great many times!

    - - - Updated - - -

    With the mainspring fully wound it will advance its self by about 35 minutes a day!
     
  20. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Though this is likely tantamount to horological heresy I should note that though I was absent from the forum I did try a trick that successfully slowed an Emperor that I have with a Hermle movement - I taped coins to the bob. I used painters tape soas to not damage it. I got the idea when I watched a documentary about the Westminster Palace clock tower (Elizabeth Tower which tolls Big Ben). They actually add coins to the top of the pendulum rod. Each penny slows the clock by 2/10 of a second which they do to adjust for temperature changes which shortens or lengthens the rod. The increased weight does seem to slow it adequately though I know this is not a proper solution.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You're quite correct that I can't go too much longer because there is a board tucked in the metal base preventing exterior access/interior egress.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So sorry for the delay and the lack of initial info
     
  21. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    You'd need to add about 1/3 inch to the length. Do you have that much
    space?
    Just adding weight to the bob of a clock with a recoil will make it slower and
    also more likely to fail to run but adding weight to the bob deadbeat has little
    effect other than possibly making it less likely to run as well.
    The Brocot escapement is a variation of a deadbeat.
    If you can add that much you could use a new pendulum rod.
    If you don't have that much space, we should see a video of the
    escapement as there is likely something wrong with the
    clock.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  22. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    #22 harold bain, Aug 15, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    The original pendulum would have looked like what Fitz showed. Timesavers sells a good reproduction of that pendulum.

    312866.attach.jpeg
     
  23. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    #23 Jayke, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2017
    Geez Harold that pendulum assembly is quite different from my own. It's no wonder the poor little thing is running away with its self. In searching for the replacement of the correct is there a certain way I should approach this? I.E. should I attempt to "look it up by application" or will I be safe attempting to match it by appearance?
     
  24. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    I suspect I have a 1/3" available though I would have to check to be sure. I never considered that added weight could put undue strain on the clock, thereby causing premature failure of this component or that.
     
  25. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

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    It doesn't cause damage, it just caused the clock to not run.
    The rod on the other pendulum adds significantly to the intertial
    of the bob/rod. This slows the pendulum rate.
    Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight
     
  26. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Timesavers part # 19369 is the pendulum you need. You might also need a new suspension rod, Timesavers # 18913 for a dozen of them. They are 18 inches long, and have to be cut to fit what you need.
    www.timesavers.com
     
    Jayke likes this.
  27. Styrofoam_Guy

    Styrofoam_Guy Registered User
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    What a coincidence as I just picked up the same clock last week. My finish is not as good as yours but my movement seems find. I don't know if this is the original pendulum but it is currently keeping correct time. (after a cleaning) 314142.jpg 314144.jpg 314147.jpg 314148.jpg
     
  28. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    That looks right.
     
  29. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Looks like you got yourself a fine piece there. I have doubts about the finish on mine. It is very well done, but my guess is that after 100 years it can't be original.
     
  30. Styrofoam_Guy

    Styrofoam_Guy Registered User
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    Here is an ebay auction that finished of the same clock
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Ansonia-Open-Visible-Escapement-Knight-Figural-Statue-Mantle-Shelf-Clock-/322269956631?nma=true&si=QBq%252FkkUcfdZNBttD28Df7AVvFXI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    I noticed that this clock also has the end of the trumpet broken off like mine.

    The pendulum also looks like the one I have. It is hard to see in the photos as the exposure is quite different in some of them but in the brighter photos you can see some gold painting on parts of the clock. It is more visible in the top views.

    It is more obvious on my clock because it is so dirty and the gold painted parts are brighter.
     
  31. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    Hi folks! I haven't been able to logon since NAWCC changed its forum format! I JUST got my password reset! Thank you everyone for your replies. Buying a replacement from Timesavers' reproduction as suggested and it's been perfect ever since! I would never have figured it out if it weren't for you guys! Thank you soooo much
     
  32. Jayke

    Jayke Registered User

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    I'm terribly sorry to see that Harold is deceased. I enjoyed interacting with him.
     
  33. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    Yeah, Harold was special. We miss him!
     
  34. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
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    For future reference:
    The through-the-dial adjuster works by moving the suspension spring up and down between the chops, altering its effective length. If the adjuster is working, no way it can be turned a hundred times.

    Looking at the adjuster, reach around to the front and turn the key. See what happens. The upper gear should turn, the suspension spring should move.

    Adjuster.jpg
     
  35. shutterbug

    shutterbug Super Moderator
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    Bangster is only partially correct in what he said there. On some movements, the suspension spring does indeed move up or down. But on others, the suspension spring does not move, but the lower chops on the adjuster does, effectively reducing/increasing the size of the business part of the spring. Just a minor clarification for someone observing the latter process and thinking something is broken ;)
     
  36. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    But in any case, the number of turns you can make on the adjuster should be limited.
    Uhralt
     
  37. bangster

    bangster Super Moderator
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    From the pic, it looks to me like the chops don't move. But regardless of which moves, the object is to alter the effective length of the spring.:cool:
     

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