Ansonia chime hammer issue

[digitalblsphemy]

I picked up this Ansonia Gold Medallion wall clock. It was delivered in bad condition. Five of the eight chime rods were broken off, (see previous thread), door mount was broken off.
Anyway, I finally was able to get a new chime rod set, put everything back together.
When I had it dismantled, I inspected, cleaned, lubricated the movement. I had sticky, hammer issue which seemed to clear up after cleaning.
Here's the issue;
This is a triple chime, side hammer movement. It's 1985 model.
The 1/4 , 1/2, sequence will complete.
The 3/4 sequence the last 2 hammers hang.
On the hour trip, the last two notes drop and then chime the hour. The 4/4 sequence never runs.
This goes on and on till the chime side seems to jam and nothing chimes, the hammers are stuck,
The only other obvious thing is the chime barrel selection lever seems to stick, jam until those stuck hammers are freed.
I don't believe the auto-correct on the hour is functioning either.
Usually I would go to the top chime wheel on the top of train, but this is an odd unit being a side hammer.
Whatever is doing this, I'm missing it somehow.
There's no issues at all with time train, runs without the pendulum as well.
Any advice is appreciated

 

[R. Croswell]

Did you completely disassemble the movement, including the hammer assembly for cleaning?

RC

 

[Willie X]

I picked up this Ansonia Gold Medallion wall clock. It was delivered in bad condition. Five of the eight chime rods were broken off, (see previous thread), door mount was broken off.
Anyway, I finally was able to get a new chime rod set, put everything back together.
When I had it dismantled, I inspected, cleaned, lubricated the movement. I had sticky, hammer issue which seemed to clear up after cleaning.
Here's the issue;
This is a triple chime, side hammer movement. It's 1985 model.
The 1/4 , 1/2, sequence will complete.
The 3/4 sequence the last 2 hammers hang.
On the hour trip, the last two notes drop and then chime the hour. The 4/4 sequence never runs.
This goes on and on till the chime side seems to jam and nothing chimes, the hammers are stuck,
The only other obvious thing is the chime barrel selection lever seems to stick, jam until those stuck hammers are freed.
I don't believe the auto-correct on the hour is functioning either.
Usually I would go to the top chime wheel on the top of train, but this is an odd unit being a side hammer.
Whatever is doing this, I'm missing it somehow.
There's no issues at all with time train, runs without the pendulum as well.
Any advice is appreciated
View attachment 764072 View attachment 764073
View attachment 764074 View attachment 764075

 

[Willie X]

That looks like a Hermle 1051 series movement. So, instead of "Ansonia" you might get better searches using the Hermle #. Willie X

 

[digitalblsphemy]

No RC, only the chime barrel/hammer assembly as a unit. Hammers dropped freely, etc. Saw no issues to cause what it's doing.
Willie, your right it's a Hermle under the Ansonia stamp, 1051-031A

 

[roughbarked]

Sounds like it isn't fully synchronised. Hanging hammers indicate that the sequence hasn't finished properly.

 

[tracerjack]

Sounds like it isn't fully synchronised. Hanging hammers indicate that the sequence hasn't finished properly.

I agree. They are not stuck since they finish lifting and drop on the next sequence.

 

[digitalblsphemy]

I concur with the sync, however it doesn't explain why the 1/4, 1/2 sequence will start and finish correctly. The 3/4 will not finish therein lies the issue.
They should all be out of sync, not partially?

 

[R. Croswell]

No RC, only the chime barrel/hammer assembly as a unit. Hammers dropped freely, etc. Saw no issues to cause what it's doing.
Willie, your right it's a Hermle under the Ansonia stamp, 1051-031A

I agree with others, it sounds like it isn't completing the chime sequence. The next question is, is it up against a hard stop (the chime train has finished its run and the train has locked), or has the chime train stalled and not completed its run. That's easy to tell; when it stops and the last hammers have not dropped, giving the gears in the upper chime train a little boost should "help" it finish if it is stalled. If it is up against a hard stop that will be obvious.

From your description, I suspect that the chime train is completing its run and locking but the chime drum is not advanced far enough. That's usually a simple matter of loosening the set screw in the gear that drives the chime drum and advancing it until the hammer sequence is complete. On these triple chime movements the adjustment is super critical. If the initial adjustment was made while set for Westminster, it will likely not be correct for the other melodies that use all the hammers.

[edit] Oh yes, one more thing. The above is assuming that the chime sequences on the first 1/4 is actually starting at the beginning notes. Set it for Westminster and at the first quarter there should 4 hammers should drop in order as in 1, 2, 3, 4. Then set to one of the 8-note sequences to finish the final adjustment.

RC

 

[Willie X]

Same as RC ... find out what's blocking the train short on the 3rd quarter. It should be nothing.

Willie X

 

[digitalblsphemy]

All 3 melodies will have the same symptom, however it is more pronounced in the 8 hammer sequence obviously. The Westminster will almost finish. I've noticed after the 4/4 late completion . It tends to skip the 1/4 and chime and play the 1/2 sequence instead.
I'm going to have to pull this out and put it on a bench to again.
I hate taking this dial pan off, it's one of those push and snap on/off tabs. A real PIA...
I did make a short video of it before reassembly that I might post later.

 

[digitalblsphemy]

Maybe this will help

 

[Willie X]

Something is causing a drag on the chime train. It starts OK and slowly grinds to a stop.

That chattering sound in the strike train is not supposed to be there.

A 38 year old Hermle will need serious repair. or replacement.

Willie X

 

[digitalblsphemy]

I can't find that chatter myself Willie X. It's like a grinding butterfly wheel but it's not. Only happens as it strikes the hour.

 

[shutterbug]

I believe it's hanging while trying to trigger the strike warning run. You might have that lever rising enough to stall the chime side. Or you might have an issue with the strike rack hook sticking.

 

[roughbarked]

I believe it's hanging while trying to trigger the strike warning run. You might have that lever rising enough to stall the chime side. Or you might have an issue with the strike rack hook sticking.

This would account for the chatter too.

 

[digitalblsphemy]

I'm checking into that now. Because of how the chime barrel is mounted it's difficult at best.

I do appreciate the feed back guys, seriously.